Can a person be a Christian and a scientologist?

by truthlover 18 Replies latest jw friends

  • drwtsn32
    drwtsn32
    Maybe the aliens are in control LOL

    And remember how hard the JWs try to put forth the appearance that their lives are so happy, so problem free....

  • beksbks
    beksbks

    If you read more about it, they only target people who are already monied and successful. Hmmmm I wonder why???

  • Mrs. Fiorini
    Mrs. Fiorini

    I think it's important for anyone who has been involved with the WT to understand how cults work and how they have been affected by them. People who have been in cults and not fully healed from that experience are vulnerable to being sucked into another.

    Steve Hassan's book, "Combatting Cult Mind Control" is very helpful in this regard.

    Scientology hurts people, just like the WT does, and uses many of the same mind control techniques.

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    The Scientologist believe in getting all your money.

    L.Ron Hubbard was a science fiction writter. He said a man could make a million dollars if he invented

    a religion.

    And he did.

    Do you need any more info than that.

    I live down the street from their headquarters, they are all zombies, they dont smile.

    They hardly even talk to one another.

    But as far as a person being a christian and being a Scientologist.

    That depends on who you talk to.

    If you were to talk to Osama bin Laden,

    He would say everybody in America is a Christian.

    Thats our national designation.

    It has nothing to do with belief or religion, its synonomous with the west and capitalism

    and materialism.

    I dont think you could be a baptist and be a scientologist.

    I think there would be a mental disconnect.

  • abbagail
    abbagail

    I would think No, to answer your question. The basic foundations of the two are total opposites.

    The celebs who are scientologists might be happy 'cuz they got more moola than the average bear, lol. Also if you are blessed with a great mate, that definitely helps in the happiness department. Not to mention the scenic view from Tom Cruise's mountain home.

    What do they believe happens after death? I really don't know, but poor John Travolta recently with his beloved son dying so suddenly and so young. That's got to be a killer heartache. I would not want to be a scientologist when death hits a loved one. What hope do they have?

    Evidently the scientologists are a problem in Greece... a quick google pulled up this book about them by a Greek journalist who apparently has been studying them for 15 years: http://www.unchain.gr/MERCENARIES.html [the URL button is not working on Safari tonight... ]

    NEW ORDER MERCENARIES

    The activities of extremist
    parareligions and

    $CIENTOLOG¥

    based on Scientology’s seized documents

    By Tony J. Bosnakoudis

    PELASGOS Publishing (127 Ahilleos Parashou str, 114-75 Athens, Greece. Phone: +301644021, fax: +3016450097)

    [...]

    Athens, July 2001 ISBN: 960-522-112-8 500 pages HOW it:
  • Breaks up families
  • Brainwashes people
  • Is linked to CIA and NSA
  • Attacks Greece and the Church
  • Cooperates with Turkey and islamists
  • Affects journalists and politicians
  • Carries out covert operations in the Balkans
  • Intervenes within the Greek Intelligence Agency
  • Keeps files for everyone
  • Censors the Internet
    •  Tony J. Bosnakoudis is a journalist in the «Defence & Diplomacy» and «RESALTO» magazines
    [...]
    CONTENTS
  • PREFACE
  • SCIENTOLOGY MEDUSA 18
  • INTRODUCTION 19
  • How all started
  • The real face
  • Internet War
  • What does the USA do?
  • Bait and Switch
  • HISTORY 77
  • SCIENTOLOGY THEORIES, PRACTICES AND BELIEFS 87
  • NAZISM AND SCIENTOLOGY (Parallel occult and racist ways) 103
  • Building the superhuman
  • Aleister Crowley: "The Great Beast"
  • Arians-Thetans
  • Endoterrestrials-Extraterrestrials
  • Hitler-Hubbard: "Gates of Knowledge"
  • World domination and separate state
  • Revival of "lost civilization"
  • Secret hierarchy of the "chosen ones"
  • "Mine Kampf"- "Dianetics"
  • "Hellenocentric" distortion
  • Control of external contacts
  • Persecution of social groups
  • Concentration camps
  • Militarized structure and uniforms
  • Espionage
  • BRAINWASH IN SCIENTOLOGY 173
  • AFRICA 201
  • Security Check
  • "Religious" justification
  • Support to the governing National Party
  • SCIENTOLOGY INTERLACE WITH SECRET AGENCIES 213
  • NOC (Non Official Cover)
  • From Churches to extremist cults
  • Psychic Espionage (Remote Viewing)
  • NSA: The US National Security Agency
  • InfoSec
  • Central Security Service
  • Index of Figure
  • Analysis of structure
  • NSA Structure (figure)
  • Power Laundering
  • Uncle Oscar vs Uncle Sam (Hegellian Principle)
  • Human Rights
  • Amnesty International uncovers the US
  • Turkish regime and Scientology. Balkan operations
  • Weapons, assasinations and extremist cults
  • Ananda Marga
  • Aum Shinrikyo and Shoko Asahara
  • Satellites and earthquakes
  • Saisho Sensoo
  • Church-State relations
  • Deputies and Ministers in favour of KEFE
  • "Arguments"
  • Dead Agenting in practise
  • Takis Alexiou - Vasilis Rafailides
  • DESTRUCTIVE CULTS. Survival Guide 465
  • DEALING WITH A VICTIM 475
  • APPENDIX (Parts of the Prosecutor Angelis' Report) 483
    • [...]
    -------------------
    Ugh, I am not liking the light grey text color... You can't tell it is light grey until after you post, so I keep going back in to choose regular BLACK text color.
  • abbagail
    abbagail

    Wow, and here's a blog article listing specific -- and mightily creepy -- quotes from Hubbard's book: Science of Survival...

    http://www.skeptictank.org/gen2/gen00048.htm

    On Hubbard's Vision of A New World Order ---

    Scientology Crime Syndicate

    From: Warrior <warrior@...
    Date: 4 May 2000 22:53:35 -0700

    Let's don't forget that Hubbard also wrote in _Science of Survival_:

    "The sudden and abrupt deletion of all individuals occupying the lower bands of the tone scale from the social order would result in an almost instant rise in the cultural tone and would interrupt the dwindling spiral into which any society may have entered. It is not necessary to produce a world of clears in order to have a reasonable and worthwhile social order; it is only necessary to delete those individuals who range from 2.0 down, either by processing them enough ... or simply quarantining them from the society."

    In other words, go along with Hubbard's vision of how to produce an "optimum" state (become a Scientology "Clear"), or be removed from society.

    Earlier in his _SOS_, Hubbard wrote on page 131:

    "The only answers would seem to be the permanent quarantine of such persons from society to avoid the contagion of their insanities and the general turbulence which they bring into any order"

    This is illustrative of Hubbard's vision for a new world order. In such a fascist state as the one envisioned by Hubbard, only "clears" would have civil rights.

    "In any event, any person from 2.0 down on the tone scale should not have, in any thinking society, any civil rights of any kind..."

    Lest anyone fail to grasp the seriousness of Hubbard's ideas, consider the following from his _SOS_, page 164:

    "Thus, immediately after a complete totalitarian conquest of a country we invariably witness an extensive slaughter of indiv- iduals. One can select with ease the individuals marked for liquidation in the consolidation of the conquest. The selection is not made according to the position the individual occupies but by his individualism, his strength, and his reasonableness, or by his continuing revolutionary desire not to conform to set and regimented patterns."

    Hubbard's disdain for individuals who are not "clear" is evident in his definition of a "clear" -- "homo novis" (new man), as compared to a person who is not "clear" -- a "wog", defined by Hubbard to be a "common ordinary run-of-the mill garden-variety humanoid" -- a homo sapien.

    At the very beginning of his _Science of Survival_, Hubbard gives the goal of Dianetics as "a world without insanity, without criminals, and without war -- this is the goal of Dianetics."

    Sound like a worthwhile goal?

    Think again.

    Realize that a person "below 2.0 on the tone scale" is _insane_ in Hubbard's and Scientology's view.

    >From _SOS_, pages 89-90:

    "A 1.1 is the most dangerously insane person in society"

    "Such people should be taken from the society as rapidly as possible and uniformly institutionalized ... Because of the covert nature of this insanity, it is completely beside the point whether such a person is pronounced insane by any agency."

    "In this level is the slime of society, the sex criminals, the political subversives, the people whose apparently rational activities are yet but the devious writhings of secret hate."

    "No social order will survive which does not remove these people from its midst."

    ===

    One would have to be completely blind, or ignorant of history to not see the frightening parallels between Hubbard's Scientology and Hitler's Nazi Party ideologies.

    Want to be a "Homo novis"/"Clear"/"OT"/Scientologist?

    I'll pass, thank you...

    Warrior

    [...]

  • abbagail
    abbagail

    And here's a page with your specific question in the browser title, with a chart outlining Hubbard quotes and beliefs from his books, vs. Biblical positions on the same subjects... (dated 1996)...

    Update: Bummer, the chart lines/blocks didn't show up... or did they?

    Scientology vs. Christianity

    http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/scientology_vs_christ.html

    L RON HUBBARD AND JESUS CHRIST

    (updated repost with references)

    Disclaimer: Some of the verses cited in this chart are not from the King James Bible.

    I have heard it said that a Scientology spokeswoman stated that Scientology is "not a turn the other cheek religion". How true, indeed. This article contains an updated repost of this comparison between Christianity and Scientology, which many found quite revealing. Now also references.

    ChristianityScientology
    On revenge and enemies"Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who ill-treat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also." - Jesus Christ, Luke 6:27-28, Matthew 5:38-39"An enemy... may be injured by any means or tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed."

    - L. Ron Hubbard, Penalties for Lower Conditions, HCO PL 18 Oct 67

    "This is the correct procedure:

    1. Spot who is attacking us.
    2. Start investigating them promptly for FELONIES or worse using our own professionals, not outside agencies.
    3. Double curve our reply by saying we welcome an investigation of them.
    4. Start feeding lurid, blood sex crime actual evidence on the attackers to the press.
    DON'T EVER tamely submit to an investigation of us. Make it rough, rough on attackers all the way."

    - L. Ron Hubbard, Attacks on Scientology, HCO PL 25 Feb 1966

    About telling the truth"Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes', and your 'No', 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one." - Jesus Christ NT:Matthew 5:37"Handling truth is a touchy business ... Tell an acceptable truth." - L. Ron Hubbard, The Missing Ingredient, 13 August 1970.
    About using religious deception"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them." - Jesus Christ,Matthew 7:15"Churches are looked upon as reform groups. Therefore we must act like a reform group." - L. Ron Hubbard, 1966, According to Jon Atack's The total freedom trap
    About greed and money"Give to everyone who asks you, do not demand it back." - Jesus Christ, Luke 6:30

    "Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven." - Jesus Christ, Luke 18:22

    		"MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY." - L. Ron Hubbard, HCO PL 9 Mar 72
    About the price charged for religion"Freely you have received, freely give." - Jesus Christ, Matthew 10:8"PROCESSING MAY NEVER BE GIVEN AWAY BY AN ORG. Processing is too expensive to deliver." - L. Ron Hubbard HCO PL 27 Sep 70 (Issue I)
    About the judicial system"Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court." - Jesus Christ,Matthew 5:25"The law can be used very easily to harass... the purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win." - L. Ron Hubbard, The Scientologist - A Manual on the Dissemination of Material", reprinted in The Technical Bulletins of Dianetics and Scientology volume 2, pp.151-171, 1979 printing.
    About redemption in Christ"... I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." - St. Paul, Galatians 2:20"Christ died for his own sins." - L. Ron Hubbard, (Uncertain ref; Saint Hill tape #12 or such. Readers are urged to post the correct ref, if possible).
    About using religion to make money"... men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain." - St. Paul, 1 Timothy 5:5"I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is." - L. Ron Hubbard to Lloyd Eshbach in 1949; quoted by Eshbach in Over My Shoulder.
    About being open-minded"Test everything. Hold on to the good." - St. Paul, 1 Thessalonians 5:21"Never permit an 'open-minded' approach. [...] Never let them be half-minded about being Scientologists..." - L. Ron Hubbard,Keeping Scientology Working, HCO PL 7 Feb 65, reissued in 1980, 1991 edition.
    About society in general"Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established." - St. Paul, Romans 13:1"If we place the government on our chart of human evaluation we find a craven psychotic .... Governments are insane." - L. Ron Hubbard, Ability Magazine, Issue No. 5
    About the great "knowledge" of cults"Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge, which some have professed and in so doing have wandered from the faith." - St. Paul, 1 Timothy 6:20-21"This is useful knowledge. With it the blind again see, the lame walk, the ill recover, the insane become sane and the sane become saner. By its use the thousand abilities man has sought to recover become his once more." - L. Ron Hubbard,Scientology: A History of Man. Foreword.
    About the reality of Christianity"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched - this we proclaim concerning the Word of Life." - St. John , 1 John. 1:1"I don't know how they found it; either by watching madmen or something. But since that time they have used it. And it became what is known as Christianity. The Man on the cross.There was no Christ!" - L. Ron Hubbard, Class 8 Auditor's Course (Confidential), taped on the ship Apollo in Corfu, Greece.
    Jeff Jacobsen:
    About who will own the universe"Blessed are the meek; for they shall inherit the earth." (Jesus Christ, Mat. 5:5)"The universe is a rough universe. It is a terrible and deadly universe. Only the strong survive it, only the ruthless can own it." - L.Ron Hubbard, Scientology: A History of Man, p.38)
    Perry Scott:
    About the law"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." - Jesus Christ, Luke 5:17-18, (KJV)"Somebody some day will say 'this is illegal'. By then be sure the orgs say what is legal or not." -- L. Ron Hubbard, HCOPL 4 January 1966
    About lawsuits"And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also." - Jesus Christ, Matt 5:40 (KJV)"The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win...The law can be used very easily to harass, and...will generally be sufficient to cause [the enemy's] professional decease. If possible, of course ruin him utterly." - L.Ron Hubbard, Magazine articles on Level O Checksheet, American Saint Hill Organization 1968.
    About forgiveness"And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other;" - Jesus Christ, Luke 6:29 (KJV)"We are not a turn-the-other-cheek religion." - Liesa Goodman, cult spokesperson, on MTV's "New Religions: The Cult Question", June 1995

    Perhaps it's useless to compare statements from the Bible with Hubbard's blasphemous views on the subject. The shocking differences are all too obvious. It's difficult to resist the temptation, when Scientology publications state that "you can be a Christian and a Scientologist at the same time".

    Comparing such statements might have relevance for Christian readers of a.r.s. and the crossposted groups, but it seems like all people, regardless of their belief, should remember this description of dangerous cults: "They come to you in sheep's clothing...."

    [email protected] Student of Theology, Law Student U of Helsinki
    source:
    http://www.ezlink.com/~perry/Co$/Christian/peik.htm
    [...]
  • truthlover
    truthlover

    What excellent information all of you, thanks for the feedback......

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    :Can a person be a Christian and a scientologist?

    For the same reason a person cannot be a Muslim and a Jew.

    Farkel

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