How can we know if a spirit world exists? (page 2)

Satanus

6o9

That could be a sufi, a muslim holy man. They are known to fly about, especially when hit by incoming missiles.

SS

I just bought a book today on sale.
I thought it was about something else as the title is "DNA and the origins of knowledge" I didn't notice the bit at the top that said "The cosmic serpent".
It turns out that the bbok is dealing with how primative peoples claimed to get knowledge of the healing properies of plants amongst other things by having hallucinations due to drugs.
The primative peoples belived they were getting into contact with a spirit world.
The aurthor is developing the idea that the drugs are helping people to use unused parts of the brain.
I don't know what it has to do with DNA yet but I've only read 3 chapters.

I'm sceptical at the moment but will read the book through as it is quite interesting.

Satanus

sleepy

What you describe is shamanism, or at least the same as what shamans do. It is a universal aboriginal phenomenon; siberia, asia, europe, africa, north and south america. It seems to develop naturally in indiginous peoples. When civilization becomes more sophisticated, it dies out.

It sounds like an interesting book.

SS

sleepy

Yes thats it Shamanism.
Apparently many of the plants used by native south american indians are being used by pharmaceutical companies right now to cure diseases.
Some are very complicated concoctions requiring plants to act as catalysts for other plants to take effect and also needing intricate preperation.
These combinations of plants are said to be revealed to the shaman under the influence of certain drugs.

SixofNine

:These combinations of plants are said to be revealed to the shaman under the influence of certain drugs.

yeah, right. religion is a snare and a racket even for people who don't wear clothes.

Satanus

6o9

So, if someone smokes a joint, has he joined a new religion? The plant is his god?

SS

sleepy

All this reading about hallucinations reminded me of a time when I got drunk.
I remember comeing home and lying on my bed , and then the room spinning bit started.
But then something really strange happened , I started hearing voices and strange noises in my head .It sounded like people whispering and objects buzzing past my ear.
Rejecting ideas of spirits and all that what exactly was happening in my head?
Was I hearing noises and misinterpreting them or had I become more attuned to subtle sounds.
Anyway it sound similar to the effects of some of the drugs shamen take.
So what happens when we get drunk or are high on drugs?
We usualy think of it as loseing grip on reality , but the shamen think you are getting closer to it.

Satanus

sleepy

If you want to read about shamanism, one of the better books is 'the way of the shaman' by michael harner.

SS

Nathan Natas

Sleepy asked,

Rejecting ideas of spirits and all that what exactly was happening in my head? Was I hearing noises and misinterpreting them or had I become more attuned to subtle sounds... So what happens when we get drunk or are high on drugs? We usualy think of it as loseing grip on reality , but the shamen think you are getting closer to it.

How about this? Shamens are wrong. They seek to maintain their position of power in the community and lie to do so.

Please don't take this personally, but has it occurred to you that by degrading your "reality-sensing instrument" (your BRAIN) via intoxication, you were more likely to be MIS-apprehending reality, hearing things that were not there?

Plenty of drunk drivers believe that they're just FINE behind the wheel. Don't bet your life on it!

If a little drunkenness gives you enhanced perception, would it follow that drinking to the point of death by alcohol poisoning would reveal even greater mysteries? Clearly that is nonsense.

Your brain evolved the way it did to provide the best possible survival tool, assuming your brain is healthy and structured properly. If survival of the species depended upon message from beyond, we would be naturally equipped to receive them in an UN-altered state.

If I start seeing things that other people don't see or hearing things that other people don't hear, I'll suspect that I need medical attention, not that I have been chosen of God.

sleepy

I wasn't suggesting that I beloved what the shaman taught, I was just expressing their idea.

It turns out according to this book anyway that hallucinations are very little understood. The only drug that has been properly tested is LSD and that is only a pseudo hallucinogenic like alcohol. That means that the person knows they are seeing things that aren't real.
There are other drugs that make you see thing you do think are real and react to, a bit like a vivid dream .But in dreams our bodies are paralysed which stops us reacting.
No one really knows how we see anyway, that is how the brain creates images that we can experience.
Even in "normal" vision our brain creates bits which aren't there for example it will fill in a blind spot.
No one can know if the world really "looks" the way we see it could just be like the computer making sense of information that does not have a look , your cd-rom has no pictures on it just information on how to recreate pictures .That would mean vision only exists in our heads.
When we are drunk we cannot longer interact properly with everyone else properly so that indicates that the drunk is in error. So we could define what is reality as being able to interact with everyone else.
But then you get to quantum mechanics were the observer effects what is being observed.
Things don’t happen or have properties until they are “measured” this would suggest that reality is the result of observing things.
This is were it all gets too confusing for me .Better think harder.

So what I am trying say is what is reality, what is in our head or only what is in our head due to it being taken in by our known senses?

How can we know if a spirit world exists?

Share this