God. Jesus. Afterlife... what is the evidence?

by refiners fire 14 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  refiners fire

  Seems to be a lot of talk here today about afterlife. so....
  there is no evidence of life after death.

  point 1:
  Ever seen a dead body?
  I cant look upon a dead body and believe that person is anywhere except...GONE.
  My every instinct screams this conclusion.

  point 2:
  The notion of people growing, until they die, at which time they go consciously to heaven is contrary to the evidence.
  Creativity and mental powers DETERIORATE with age. They dont increase.My mother in law is 82 and is practically a mental vegetable, her powers of reason are GONE.Lost over the past 5 years.
  She is a shadow of her former self, if humans mentally grew in awareness, knowledge, and wisdom in preparation for heavenly life we would ascend at 45, or 50 years of age. not 90.
  Surely you see the probability of this reasoning being correct.

  point 3:
  "Faith". What an absurd notion.
  The supreme creator God of the universe conceals Himself from man, who seeks Him, because he wants them to desperately want Him, so badly, that they follow Him without even knowing he exists?
  Its ridiculous.
  Would YOU do that if you were the supreme creator?
  Course you wouldnt.
  Youd come down, ressurect dead children before the eyes of their weeping parents, and then the parents would be so joyous and gratefull that they would love you forever.
  Thats what any rational person would do.

  Point 4:
  Universal struggle between good and evil, i hear you say God cant reveal himself because we must choose between Good and Evil.
  Horsecrap.
  It is totally apparent that the nature of Physical reality is founded in contradiction and the principle of opposites.
  Physical reality exists because of oppossing forces in conflict with each other. If Satan And Jah actually exist then this entire physical reality MUST be a consequence of the struggle between them.
  More likely the concept of Jah versus Satan is a product of polarized thinking within the minds of creatures who live within this conflicted reality.

  point 5:
  Jesus as the "way"
  If Jesus is the way to heaven, the only way, this excludes China,
  and all asian culture, also the middle East and all Muslim culture from Gods grace. On a National basis .
  1 billion Chinese are excluded from Gods presence purely by virtue of having been born in a country that does not culturally accept Christ.
  This is rank racsism.
  I can never believe that the Supreme creator rejects Chinese by virtue of being Chinese.
  If anything at all, there must be multiple paths to God, incorporating Muslim, Christian and Buddhist belief. More likely is the probability that NONE of them are right.

  I have said enough.
• 

  josephus

  hi

  ive never spoken to you i think so ill try to answer you as best as i can.

  1 "gone"

  that is not a proof. it merely asks the question "gone where" ?

  2 seems right, but why not. reincarnation teaches that all life is a learning experience. you mum
  may gain some insight even now.

  3 faith is a great thing!!!
  do your children have faith in you feeding them ? when they were young and you took them too the dentist, was
  it evidence of love, or hate ? perhaps god has bigger plans for us.

  4 please explain further, for the nonphilosophers among us (me).

  5 jesus allso said. "those without law show they have it in their hearts by living it" (badly quoted)

  nice to here from you.

  josephus
  ps i am dyslexic so dont take the piss about my spelling
• 

  rekless

  i said that once here, but not as eloquint as you.
• 

  refiners fire

  Josephus.
  The very foundation block of reality, the atom, it is constructed of parts that contain charges that are oppossed to each other.
  The Solar system holds in place by virtue of forces neutralizing each other. Gravity versus momentum. Result= stability.

  If God wanted youre love he would lay his hand upon you and cure your dislexia. What would it cost Him? Nothing. What would it benefit you?
  Heaps. If I could I would lay my hand upon you and cure your dislexia this very second. You would like me for that wouldnt you?
  But I wouldnt expect you to worship me for it.
  I would just be happy that I had made a fellow creatures life more joyous.
• 

  patio34

  Hi RF,

  I like your points, they make sense. It reminds me of one of my favorite quotes by Carl Sagan: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." As you highlight, where are the proofs, let alone extraordinary proofs? Ah, that's why you have to have faith, there are no proofs.

  I think Russell had it right "Religion is a snare and a racket." But, not only religion, there are alien abductions, appearances by spirits, UFOs, etc. But religion has been with humans for eons, providing a living for the priests and support for the rulers.
  In the past, it was used to explain the unknowable, like lightning, storms, floods, etc. But now humans know so much more. Eventually, there will be no need for religions to exist.

  My 2 cents,
  Pat
• 

  josephus

  you really do have a lovely writing style. its a pleasure to read it.

  however what if,

  you cure me now, and later in life, having forgotten about my own problems i end up showing no mercy for the
  sick people i know.

  in this case my dyslexia could offer me an insight into, other worse off souls.

  in your mothers case, surely she would offer a great deal of love and compassion for others if she was to life forever as
  a perfacr person.

  regards

  josephus
  ps i get you reference to positivly and negativly charged protons. i beleive the bible is the equivalent of a human downloading
  his brain into a pocket calculator. the redults will allways be inadacquit. but is the best system available at the time.
• 

  refiners fire

  josephus mentions reincarnation.
  this seems an unlikely prospect.If souls are coming back again and again, learning spiritual lessons, where are these ascended persons?
  I look at children and see their greed and selfishness, not one of them is concerned for any other person except his own wants and desires.Where is there a single one who has learnt anything with regard to selflessness? Not one.
  Selflessness comes with age. The older you get the more selfless you get (i suppose).But when you die and return again you start the selfishness lesson again.Besides, how does it benefit you being reincarnated if you do not remember what you have learnt?
  I Just cant see the logic of it.
• 

  josephus

  hi

  personnaly i agree with you about reincarnation. i do like the point of learning during you life, and then useing it as a caytlst for changes into a future life. thats why i think even adversaties can be helpfull.

  i guess it does come down to faith. to me faith is not some blind acceptance of a teaching. it is (to me) carefully weighing up the pros and cons.

  as far as i can tell the alternatives available are limited, namely evolution. and while i would be prepared to accept that limited evolution is plausible, i dont beleive we evolved consciences, or love, or our huge brains.

  we are just to far advanced to be a byproduct of random chance. if you can offer my another choice i will consider it carefully.

  regards

  josephus
• 

  refiners fire

  I think the Christian thing has just about outlived its usefullness,
  same with Muslims.There has to be a universal coming together in some form.This is the way things seem to be heading.
  I hold two possible theories at the present, only my personal inclinations,though, im not saying i absolutely believe them.
  first, that we have it ass about, that in fact existance as we know it is not the product of a controlling, PREPLANNING mind , but is rather something that started off at a very base level and is working
  UPWARD. Towards Godhood or total consciousness and integration.
  Things are ADVANCING toward betterment, not REGRESSING as Christians would tell you.In fact that God,and consciousness are expanding all the time.
  There is some evidence for this theory.
  Just as the New Testament was superior to the Old Testament method of dealing with fellow humans,so humanity is, currently, seeking a way to integrate the whole earth into oneness, discarding previous notions such as race seperation,inferiority of women, etc.

  Another theory is that We were consciously created by a preplanning entity.But this entity, in my opinion, would have to be far more patient, loving, tolerant, forgiving, etc than any current understanding of the Christian God.This theory has a nice feel to it(in my view) it is what I myself might do, if I were divine.
  Under this theory, holy books like the Bible, are not absolute truths but are reflections of mans search to know the mind of God.

  Of course, notice I offer only 2 theories. again, the old human trait of polarized thinking recurs. Something we really need to leave behind. I think.
• 

  uncle jimbo

  Hi josephus,

  in replying to RF's third point you said:

  "when they [your children] were young and you took them too the dentist, was it evidence of love, or hate ? perhaps god has bigger plans for us."

  That is not an EXACT metaphor for the situation. Every time I went to the dentist my mother was by my side reassuring me everything would be okay. I have never experienced a direct manifesatation of God DIRECTLY reassuing me. What loving parent could watch their child howling in pain and not even offer a simple, direct "It's okay" ?

  Well, the BEST God can do are long, ambigious texts (like the Bible and Koran) with a multitude of interpretations -- Hollow fairy tales at best, dangerous fodder for humanity's dark side at worst.