Jesus is only the mediator to the 144,000...everyone else is a companion and lives by association with the chosen people.
can we do a list of jw things that go "beyond what is written?".....
by oompa 49 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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oompa
tenyears:
26. Jesus is only the mediator to the 144,000...everyone else is a companion and lives by association with the chosen people...........i believe this makes the cut, but am not certain on the scripture they use for that, nor the main wt's that state that....so somebody post that evidence here please........we should prove that one is not in bible in anyway, and that WT says it is so
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Oompa, great topic. Here are a few for your consideration:
- Permitting (and encouraging) child baptism. Every baptism in the NT involved "men and women." Jesus was about 30 years old when he was baptized. There are lots of examples in Watchtower articles of baptized 10, 11, 12-year olds (and perhaps younger?).
- Discouraging/forbidding school sports and extra-curricular activities. This is done under the auspices of 1 Cor. 15:33 (bad associations), but what scriptural precedent is there for classifying all non-JWs (or even all non-christians, for that matter) as bad association? Jesus associated with sinners and non-believers.
- Requiring a confession of certain types of sins to a group of elders. The NT is clear that forgiveness only comes through Christ's sacrifice. There's a passage in James that says 'if there is anyone sick among you, let him call the older men...' The WT interprets this to mean that "spiritually sick" JWs have to confess really bad sins (fornication, drunkenness, stealing, etc.) to elders. But that's a bit of a stretch. In Ray Franz's second book, he discusses a disagreement that he had with Uncle Fred about this scripture. Ray pointed out that the Greek word translated "sick" literally meant physically sick. This makes sense to me, because at the time James wrote his letter, the "older men" still had gifts of the spirit--such as healing. Thus, if someone was sick he could go to one of these faith-healing elders! But even if James meant "spiritually sick," there's still nothing in that scripture that says "people who commit certain types of sins have to confess them to a group of men in order to be forgiven." It just isn't there.
- Disfellowshipping for smoking. While I agree that it's a rotten habit, there's no Biblical basis for casting someone out of the congregation for smoking.
- (I might catch some heat for this one...so let me go on record and say that I am not in favor of a literal application of this scripture!) Allowing women to comment and give parts on meetings. Paul is explicit and clear in 1 Cor. 14:34-35 that women are to be silent in church. Period. This is an example of how JWs pick and choose which parts of the Bible to take literally. When Paul says to "abstain from blood," the JWs say that means to completely abstain; but for some reason, when Paul says for women to be silent in church, they don't think that means to be completely silent. Inconsistent much?
As to the "mediator" issue: I think it is a great example of going beyond what's written. In fact it's going directly opposite what's written. 1 Tim. 2:5 says that Christ is the mediator between men and God. The WT says 'well...not all men...just 144,000.'
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OUTLAW
Posting so I can read this page.............OUTLAW
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Quirky1
Still holding the Mosaic and the Laws of Leviticus to the fore even tho the new covenant overrode all the previous shit.
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Two more:
- Requiring JWs to snitch to the elders if they know that another JW has committed a really bad sin. The JWs teach that if you know that a fellow JW has committed a really bad sin (fornication, drunkenness, stealing, etc.) then you have to inform the elders unless you can convince the sinner to confess. The scripture cited by the WT is Leviticus 5:1: ("Now in case a soul sins in that he has heard public cursing and he is a witness or he has seen it or has come to know of it, if he does not report it, then he must answer for his error.") The problem is that there is no corresponding scripture in the NT. Thus, this verse isn't binding on Christians.
- Allowing JWs to bypass Matthew 18 and snitch to elders without confronting you first. Matthew 18:15-17 clearly states that if a Christian knows that his brother has sinned, he is to confront the sinner first. The Watchtower teaches that this passage only applies to sins against a person (such as fraud or slander), but does not apply to other serious sins (such as fornication, drunkenness, stealing, and apostasy). This is in the "Organized book" and perhaps in some Watchtowers, too. This is going directly opposite to what's written.
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halcyon
am I invisible?
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oompa
Quirky1: Still holding the Mosaic and the Laws of Leviticus to the fore even tho the new covenant overrode all the previous shit.............this one is using just too broad of a brush......many many laws of Leviticus are not in the fore....so need more specifics...(they often say it is a principle)
OlinGhost:
27. Permitting (and encouraging) child baptism. Every baptism in the NT involved "men and women." Jesus was about 30 years old when he was baptized..........................ditto and one of my pet peeves for sure!....WT even acknowledges that in first century only adults were baptised...(yet they say they try so hard to imitate the 1st century christian congo)...often the carnage families are often put to is due to child baptism
28. Discouraging/forbidding school sports and extra-curricular activities. This is done under the auspices of 1 Cor. 15:33 (bad associations), but what scriptural precedent is there for classifying all non-JWs (or even all non-christians, for that matter) as bad association? Jesus associated with sinners and non-believers...................this make the list....even if it was an all jw school they would not even have sports because they claim it "promotes a competitive nature".....WTF is wrong with that either????
29.Requiring a confession of certain types of sins to a group of elders. The NT is clear that forgiveness only comes through Christ's sacrifice. There's a passage in James that says 'if there is anyone sick among you, let him call the older men...' The WT interprets this to mean that "spiritually sick" JWs have to confess really bad sins (fornication, drunkenness, stealing, etc.) to elders. But that's a bit of a stretch. In Ray Franz's second book, he discusses a disagreement that he had with Uncle Fred about this scripture. Ray pointed out that the Greek word translated "sick" literally meant physically sick. This makes sense to me, because at the time James wrote his letter, the "older men" still had gifts of the spirit--such as healing. Thus, if someone was sick he could go to one of these faith-healing elders! But even if James meant "spiritually sick," there's still nothing in that scripture that says "people who commit certain types of sins have to confess them to a group of men in order to be forgiven." It just isn't there.......................................absolutely on the list!.....masturbation gets a lot of confession...i wish every dub would go ever time they have an immoral thought since it just like real adultry anyway.....the elders would have no time for any publing meetings.......
30. Disfellowshipping for smoking. While I agree that it's a rotten habit, there's no Biblical basis for casting someone out of the congregation for smoking...........................definately beyond what is written... and i bet there are many other things they df for that are not biblical
31. (I might catch some heat for this one...so let me go on record and say that I am not in favor of a literal application of this scripture!) Allowing women to comment and give parts on meetings. Paul is explicit and clear in 1 Cor. 14:34-35 that women are to be silent in church. Period. This is an example of how JWs pick and choose which parts of the Bible to take literally. When Paul says to "abstain from blood," the JWs say that means to completely abstain; but for some reason, when Paul says for women to be silent in church, they don't think that means to be completely silent. Inconsistent much?...........................yes...hot damm i had not thought of that!...........how do they explain the "silent" part???...Iwill look it up
As to the "mediator" issue: I think it is a great example of going beyond what's written. In fact it's going directly opposite what's written. 1 Tim. 2:5 says that Christ is the mediator between men and God. The WT says 'well...not all men...just 144,000.' (i have not found that yet...btw)
32. Requiring JWs to snitch to the elders if they know that another JW has committed a really bad sin. The JWs teach that if you know that a fellow JW has committed a really bad sin (fornication, drunkenness, stealing, etc.) then you have to inform the elders unless you can convince the sinner to confess. The scripture cited by the WT is Leviticus 5:1: ("Now in case a soul sins in that he has heard public cursing and he is a witness or he has seen it or has come to know of it, if he does not report it, then he must answer for his error.") The problem is that there is no corresponding scripture in the NT. Thus, this verse isn't binding on Christians.........................on the list.........and the scripture is about "cursing in public"and that scripture is very specific,and i think that type of cursing involved using the the divine name
Allowing JWs to bypass Matthew 18 and snitch to elders without confronting you first. Matthew 18:15-17 clearly states that if a Christian knows that his brother has sinned, he is to confront the sinner first. The Watchtower teaches that this passage only applies to sins against a person (such as fraud or slander), but does not apply to other serious sins (such as fornication, drunkenness, stealing, and apostasy). This is in the "Organized book" and perhaps in some Watchtowers, too. This is going directly opposite to what's written......................almost a ditto....it is a plain scripture, but WT can not stop "allowing" it in that they have no conrol over it.... once the pubs do it, and the elders know about the sin, they are obligated to act on it and "remove the evildoer from your midst".........
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Quirky1
...(they often say it is a principle)
My point exactly.....they had no specifics. A broad spectrum indeed but they still refer to those laws. No tattoos, etc..
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Olin Moyles Ghost
Oompa: I found some quotes from the literature stating that J.C. is only the mediator for the anointed.
Worldwide Security Under the Prince of Peace (circa mid-1980s), p. 10: "Jesus Christ is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members."
Also QFR from 8/15/1989 WT goes into some detail on the question "Is Jesus the mediator only for spirit-anointed Christians or for all mankind?" The answer is no. The article states that J.C. is not the legal Mediator for JWs with an earthly hope, for they are not in the new covenant.
Also Insight Book, volume 2, page 362: "...Jesus' mediatorship operates solely toward those in the new covenant."