JESUS!

by Chalam 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Chalam

  Hi,

  In my relationships and dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses over the past few years I have come to learn one thing, the belief of who Jesus is is THE centre of the problem. I was led to these verses after a couple of aging Witnesses left my house after much debate, which once again proved fruitless :(

  1 Peter 2 (New International Version)

  The Living Stone and a Chosen People

  4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For in Scripture it says:
  "See, I lay a stone in Zion,
  a chosen and precious cornerstone,
  and the one who trusts in him
  will never be put to shame." 7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
  "The stone the builders rejected
  has become the capstone," 8 and,
  "A stone that causes men to stumble
  and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.

  9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

  Jesus is THE stone by which JWs fall and His message they disobey. All other issues are secondary.

  Revelation 1:7-9 (New International Version)

  7 Look, he is coming with the clouds,
  and every eye will see him,
  even those who pierced him;
  and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.

  8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

  Really, is it that difficult to believe what the bible says?

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  civicsi00

  It is difficult for JW's to see this because they have been indoctrinated to believe that they should be seeking salvation from the Watchtower organization (referred to as "Jehovah's organization"). So hard have their hearts become, that when they read the scripture that says, "To whom shall we go away to?", they immediately think of the organization, and not the person of Jesus Christ.

  It's sad, but we cannot give up the battle.
• 

  yadda yadda 2

  While I'm not a trinitarian, I agree JW's have not built themselves firmly on Jesus, the rock. They are serving an organisation. Their house is built on sand, the sands of time, which are shifting beneath them more as each year passes. Their house will eventually crumble.
• 

  middleman

  The Bible says people will be willingly ignorant...........
• 

  Chalam

  I went in search of the "willingly ignorant" verse (which turns out to be 2 Peter 3:5 for all non KJV readers) and ran across these.

  Remember "LORD" means YHWH, the Father.

  Isaiah 45:11 "This is what the LORD says—
  the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker:

  17 But Israel will be saved by the LORD
  with an everlasting salvation;
  you will never be put to shame or disgraced,
  to ages everlasting.

  18 For this is what the LORD says—
  he who created the heavens,
  he is God;
  he who fashioned and made the earth,
  he founded it;
  he did not create it to be empty,
  but formed it to be inhabited—
  he says:
  "I am the LORD,
  and there is no other.

  Who is the "Holy One"?

  Jesus, Psalm 16:10, Psalm 22, Psalm 71, Psalm 78, Psalm 89, Proverbs 9, Proverbs 30, Isaiah 1, 2 Kings 19, Job 6

  I know the phrase "Holy One" in the Bible refers to both the Father and Jesus but I was amazed that EVERY one of these passages "Holy One" refers to Jesus in some prophetic shape or form i.e. exactly something that will happen to Jesus etc. That was only the first ten!

  Here's a couple on who our Saviour is.

  Luke 2:11 Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord.

  2 Timothy 1:10 but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

  "Who created the heavens, He is God"?

  John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.

  3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

  All the best,

  Stephen
• 

  Holey_Cheeses*King_of_the juice.

  Sorry, my mistake - I thought you called.

  Cheeses.
• 

  seek2find

  I've been thinking about this very thing after reading the Watchtower study lesson for this last week from the December study edition article on Integrity. The article seemed to be focusing on what individuals can do to better their position with God. However puting ones faith in Christ was not mentioned. To me puting faith in Christ is the only thing that can put one right with God. I like the following pasage from Isa. 53:6 from the NIV Speaking propheticaly of Christ it says:

  "We all, like sheep have gone astray, each one of us has returned to his own way, and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all."

  Seek2find
• 

  Chalam

  Amen!

  I expect they don't teach on this chapter much in the "kingdom halls" ;)

  1 John 5

  Faith in the Son of God

  1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

  6 This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. 9 We accept man's testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10 Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

  All the best,

  Stephen
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  yadda yadda 2

  The 'Holy one' of Israel, and the Lord God in the OT is clearly the Father, YHWH (Jehovah). Any scripture in the OT that refers to Lord God that is later applied to Jesus does not mean Jesus is God. This is the huge error trinitarians make and its actually blasphemous. All that is happening here is that since it is through Jesus that all prophecy is fulfilled and since the Father, God, has give everything to the Son, that some OT scriptures that are speaking about the Father are later applied to Jesus, as His Son and agent. The Father gave his 'name' and everything to his Son to such a degree that He allowed Jesus to fulfill scripture that originally applied to Himself.
• 

  Chalam

  Hi yadda yadda 2,

  Can I ask if you checked these at all? Psalm 16:10, Psalm 22, Psalm 71, Psalm 78, Psalm 89, Proverbs 9, Proverbs 30, Isaiah 1, 2 Kings 19, Job 6

  Here's the first one

  Psalm 16:10 (New International Version)

  10 because you will not abandon me to the grave, [ a ]
  nor will you let your Holy One [ b ] see decay.

  Now let us see what the bible says about the "Holy One" and specifically this verse.

  Acts 2 (New International Version)

  22 "Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, [d] put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25 David said about him:
  " 'I saw the Lord always before me.
  Because he is at my right hand,
  I will not be shaken.
  26 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
  my body also will live in hope,
  27 because you will not abandon me to the grave,
  nor will you let your Holy One see decay.

  Psalm 22 (New International Version)

  2 O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
  by night, and am not silent.

  3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One

  Does it make any sense that David would refer to Jesus as "Holy One" and then a few chapters later "God" with the same term if Jesus wasn't actually God?! If that wasn't true, then David would be blaspheming and writing absolute falsehood.

  Why did the Jews accuse Jesus of blasphemy when He said "I am" and that He was "the Son of God". They were under absolute no allusions as to who He was claiming to be so they tried to stone Him and later killed him.

  All the best,

  Stephen