ENRON & SYSTEMIC COLLAPSE

by You Know 40 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  You Know

  A few days back I made a comment on the collapse of Enron on this thread: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=16970&site=3

  An excerpt from my post read: "Enron is a classic example of the hollow and predatory nature of the so-called new economy, which some imagine to be a new and improved way to MAKE MONEY! Instead of actually producing gas and energy products, Enron got into buying and selling futures sales of non-existent gas and electricity. They found that it was much more profitable to sell virtual energy than it was to actually go out and transform nature into something useful. Of course when the gig was up their pyramid of virtual dollars came unwound and vaporized. Most people assume that Enron was an anomaly. It wasn’t. Many companies are dealing in vapor. The largest so-called industrial company, General Electric, acquires half of all its revenue through playing the very money games that burned Enron. Enron’s meteoric demise is a portent of things to come for the whole ponzi-based speculative system."

  To which Sneeker responded: "That is the worst analysis of Enron I have seen yet. It's clear you took your preexisting world view and grafted it onto Enron. The reality is that Enron was buying and selling real gas and electricity contracts, and it was an is a viable business (if Enron goes, other companies will step in to take their place). What sunk Enron was some shady deals on the side that they hid from their investors. When they finally admitted it, confidence in the company's dealings was shaky, people began to wonder what else was going on, they removed business from the trading exchange, and the stock plummeted. It was a classic case of financial misconduct, not some new-age thing that You Know likes to pretend it was. If this is the kind of conclusions he reaches about something that just happened, it's clear he hasn't a clue about what is going to happen in the future. No wonder everything he has ever predicted has failed to come true."

  Today, John Hoefle, an associate of Lyndon LaRouche, and EIR, and himself a recognized authority on financial matters, who occasionally is called on to testify before various congressional banking committees and that sort of thing, issued a piece on the collapse of Enron. For those who may be interested in following this unfolding story and getting some idea of what is actually going on, his article may be read by clicking here
  >>> http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2001/2848lar_enron.html

  / You Know
• 

  refiners fire

  LYNDON LAROUCHE!
  You mean that lying cult leader Lyndon Larouche?
  Surely youre not quoting him here? Any credibility you MIGHT of had
  just went out the window pal.Next you will be telling me that the Queen of England is the worlds foremost drug baron.
  The only people who believe in Lyndon Larouches authority are his mind slaves.
• 

  4horsemen

  Not quite.

  I trade futures (does that make me the Antichrist, YK?). The markets Enron was in COB electricity futures, natural gas (and not the natural gas futures that trades on NYBOT\NYME) is amazingly thin. There are very few participants. Usually less than a handful. And it's not John Doe from a JW board. Not Mr Larouche either. Big corporations. As a rule in thinner markets, manipulation is far easier. Enron made a killing when CA. had its problems. Part of the problem for Enron is/was when CA. came in and rigged their own shell game at Enrons expense. Enron's own shennanigans were rendered impotent. The other market participants simply did not deal with Enron. No trading reveneue, cant pay debt on time. Can pay debt on time, regulators downgrade your bond rating. Crappier bond rating, the sooner you have to make payments at a higher interest rate. Enron's debt was a staggering 50%+ of expenditures. Their accountants tried to cook the books, but Dynergy got lucky and found some aberrations. Of course, it is the workers and small stockholders, and some bond holders who will get the shaft.

  Moreover the "futures" markets for electricity are no such thing. It's more like a brokers/hedgeing market. Its called a "spot" market. Which means cash. FERC is a farce and that market is pretty much like the Wild West. A true futures market would have not necessarily prevented CA. problems because there was a supply shock but certainly it could have helped to ease them.

  Interestingly it is also the natural gas, unleaded gas, crude oil, and heating oil futures markets which are heavily dominated ie manipulated. Could it be because the suppliers are also market participants? Nah. Nothing like making money on the product which you use to create a money making product. You dont think Sadam Hussein bought oil futures _before_ he invaded Kuwait do you?

  You Know. YOu might enjoy this book. "Creature from Jekyll Island" by G. Edward Griffin. Discussing that most powerful institute today: No, not WTBS. The FED.

  When you're done you'll be convinced the Day of Jah is near. Of course it happened the same way with Rome, Spain, UK and on and on...

  See you in Sheol.

  "When a man says that he has integrity, the only thing that proves is he cant be bought cheap" -author unknown
• 

  Seeker

  To which Sneeker responded:

  Get my handle right or else I'll assume you have nothing valid to say and must huddle behind cheap insults.

  Yes, yes, I know, Larouche agrees with you and you agree with Larouche, and everyone else is either blind or in on the conspiracy. Kinda hard to argue with a mindset that paranoid (and yes, refiners fire, You Know does believe that the Queen of England is behind a vast conspiracy). However, the rest of us will hardly take your word on anything, for you've been wrong countless times. Find us some independent confirmation of your rantings, and then we'll talk.
• 

  larc

  refiners fire,

  If you haven't done so, read my two long threads, Bad News For You Know, and, The 1960's: for You Know. On these two threads, I present about 30 unanswered posts regarding LaRouch, his ideas, and You Knows conclusions, with a paucity of reply from the esteemed You Know.

  You Know,

  Seeker has more validity than you do. You quote your Messiah and his staff. Get some outside facts from real financial sources, not secondary cult sources.

  While I am here, I will comment on one of your statements on another thread. You said that the reason for lowering interest rates was to get people to pull money of savings and put them into the stock market. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Do I have to help you through this one as well?
• 

  expatbrit

  It cracks me up how every time You Know comes up with one of his crackpot rantings using the LaRouche "I want to rule the world" organisation as backup, someone always says : "LaRouche? Lyndon LAROUCHE?!?!?!? ARE YOU CRAZY!?!?!? etc etc etc".

  You'd think You Know would get the message by now that LaRouche is a fraud and a charlatan. But then, he still thinks the Watchtower is God's organisation. Hahahahahaha!!!!!!

  Expatbrit

  p.s. the Queen Mother tells me she's warming up the leather leotard and cat-o'-nine-tails just for you You Know.
• 

  4horsemen

  You must forgive Mr Larouche.

  In his opinion he is the only man "intellectually qualified" to be Prez in 2004.

  Apparently he forgot Pauls admonition "For whenever a man thinks he is something when he is nothing he is deceiving his own mind"

  Other than that Mr Larouche's one great wish is to outlive Kissinger.
• 

  You Know

  Calm down refiner's fire. Try not to get hysterical. It is not uncommon for people to go into mouth-frothing fits and for their eyes to roll back like ping-pong balls when they hear the words "Lyndon LaRouche", but hopefully you won't injure yourself or anyone else till you can come around and the hysteria subsides. Actually, to allay your hysteria, I didn't actually quote Lyndon LaRouche. I cited an article written by an associate of his. You are simply ignorant of the facts and a victim of your own hubris. LaRouche, in fact, is one of the most respected statesmen and economist in the world. He regularly is consulted by leaders from around the world and is an influential, if not invisible, voice in the Democratic party. His ideas are actually one of the main driving forces in the world today. Without question, he is one of the 20th century's most brilliant thinkers. That's why he generates such controversy. The ruling establishment, of course, greatly fear him, and so, along with the media have for the most part entered into a two-fold conspiracy of slander and silence in connection with him. The fact is: You are the one who exhibits evidence of having been brainwashed, to the extent that you reflexively convulse whenever mention is made of LaRouche. My bet is that you have never read one word of his but you nonetheless imagine that you know all about him because you have unthinkingly accepted the opinions the media have force-fed you. I have been dealing with small-minded individuals for years; those who try to scold or bambozzle others away from considering ideas that frighten them don't have my respect or admiration. Apostates generally accuse Jehovah's Witnesses of being brainwashed, yet the methods you and others use are typical goon squad tactics to slander those whose ideas you don't wish others to consider. LaRouche is valuable to me, not because I think he is going to save the system, on the contrary, the implementation of his policies around the world are what is driving the oligarchy into setting off their Clash of Civilization, but rather LaRouche's value to me is that he runs a counter intelligence agency that circumvents the lock-down the mainstream media have on reliable information. / You Know
• 

  COMF
• 

  Seeker

  LaRouche, in fact, is one of the most respected statesmen and economist in the world.

  "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."