Ten Plagues of Egypt (mentioned WT 3-15-09)

by cameo-d 10 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  cameo-d

  I am sure this must have been posted before, but since the Ten Plagues are briefly mentioned in the upcoming WT, I thought it might be worth posting again. Perhaps it will provide an opportunity to pass this on to a JW friend as food for thought.

  (1)The River of Blood
  (2)The Frogs
  (3)The Lice
  (4)The Flies
  (5)The Murrain of Cattle (disease)
  (6)The Boils and Blains
  (7)The Hail
  (8)The Locusts
  (9)The Darkness
  (10)The Death of the Firstborn
  
  During the time of "Moses," there supposedly were ten plagues brought on the Pharaoh. These were used to intimidate, and were used to "persuede," the Pharaoh to let Moses' people free. "The Egyptians would not have the expertise to study such a phenomenon," so there is a good possibility for these to be natural occurences.

  [B]The River of Blood

  can be explained in two ways. #1 One is that scientests have proven there to be a volcanic erruption during the campaign of moses. The would have caused the river (or sea) to heat up and kill the fish. These dead fish would soon bleed because of the heat and turn the water blood red. #2 "It is possible that a freshwater dinoflagellate had flourished in the waters of the Nile, causing a mass infection of the fish which would cause the waters to turn red with the blood and undrinkable with the toxins." #2 has occured in both Hong Kong (1998) and North Carolina (1997)

  The Frogs - can be explained, and is related to number one. The heat in the water, and the unsuitable conditions would force the land/water frogs to emerge onto land. Here they would re-populate and cause a large amount of frogs to take over Egypt. "If a species of Cane Toad such as the Bufo marinus had been an inhabitant of the Nile, this could explain why such a large number of them were said to have plagued the land. A female Bufo is able to lay between 8,000 and 35,000 eggs at a time and the eggs can hatch within 24 hours. Another 3 weeks and, given the right temperatures and food, the tadpoles are able to metamorphose into toads that take to the land in a large quantity and thus seek for light and heat sources in order to find their primary food source that are insects . This would explain why the Egyptians found large quantities of them within their homes and ovens. "

  The Lice & The Flies - both plagues #3 & 4 can be grouped together because they are related by term - INSECT- Due to the large masses of now dead frogs on land, insects would gather to feed on

  the corpses. Being on land (frogs) they would be close to the Egyptians, which inturn would affect them greatly.

  The Murrain of Cattle (disease) - can be explained by the outburst of insects. They would feed on the dead fish, and the frogs on the land. With the contaminated algae

  in their bodies, the insects would soon be infected. These insects would soon turn to animals and livestock infecting them also. Thus creating an epidemic among the animals and livestock alike.

  The Boils and Blains - with all the disease among the animals livestock, and animals the boils would be contributed by this. The flies and insects which carried the disease, would bring them to humans when contaminating their food, water, or actually biting the Egyptians themselves.

  The Hail - a simple natural occurence. Like we have hail storms today, this occured at the time of Moses. The weather is not a factor here because there are modern day hail storms in similar weather in the Middle East.

  The Locusts - this could be the cause of the many frogs, which possible could have made the prey, the locusts turn inland away from the frogs. More likely however these locusts would have JUST swarmed like they do presently.

  The Darkness - simple explinations. One would be the frequent blinding sandstorms that occur frequently in the region. Another is a (total) solar eclipise just as they occur today.

  The Death of the Firstborn - "thought it must be the culmination of the sequence of events which involved the previous nine plagues. Evidence from modern epidemics provided the vital clue: mycotoxins carried by the spores of moulds which grow in dark damp conditions. This could conclude that droppings from the locusts of the eighth plague, contaminated grain which was stored in damp cellars during the ninth plague. Mycotoxins cause disease in animals and humans. It is the firstborn who die, because the eldest sons are sent to get the grain, and they get bigger rations."
  
  http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13446
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  behemot

  Bible scholar John Van Seters claims that the story of the ten plagues is not an ancient tradition. It was "J" (the Jahwist source) who created a tale about a series of seven plagues (the other three were authored by "P", the Priestly source: compare Psalm 78:44-51 and 105:28-38, which both allude to a cycle of seven plagues) getting its inspiration from Deuteronomy 28, Leviticus 26 and the Ancient Near Eastern tradition of curses.

  See his essay: John Van Seters, The Plagues of Egypt: Ancient Tradition or Literary Invention?, in «Zeitschrift für die Alttestamentliche Wissenschaft» 98 (1986), pp. 31-39

  Behemot
• 

  Mary

  I've heard this before. Very interesting and believable, except for the death of the firstborns.

  It is the firstborn who die, because the eldest sons are sent to get the grain, and they get bigger rations."

  I somehow have a hard time imagining Pharaoh sending his firstborn son out to "get the grain" although it's certainly feasible that the firstborns were given bigger rations. However, if we take the story at face value, it doesn't explain why the Israelites weren't affected.
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  behemot

  Mary is right: "natural" explanations don't explain why the plagues left the Israelites untouched. Assuming that the ten plagues are nothing more than just a literary creation is a better explanation imho.

  Behemot
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  AllTimeJeff

  I just wanted to throw a little JW flavored water on this.. Did you know that the 10 plauges are prophetic of 10 items YHWH will destroy?

  See 6/15/65 WT, 7/1/65 WT,

  1st Plague, Water to Blood = YHWH's denouncement on COMMERCIALISM

  2nd Plague, Frogs = YHWH's condemnation of MORAL UNCLEANNESS

  3rd Plauge, Gants = SPIRITUAL UNCLEANNESS OF FALSE RELIGION; CHRISTENDOM DOES NOT COMPARE TO YHWH'S PEOPLE

  4th Plague, Gadflies = UNSCRIPTURALNESS OF FALSE RELIGION/CHRISTENDOM IS LAID BARE BY JUDGEMENT MESSAGES

  5th Plague, Pestilence = THE DEATH OF THE SUPPORT OF ALL SATANS SYSTEM BY ITS SUPPORTERS, THANKS TO JUDGEMENT MESSAGES

  6th Plague, Boils = POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUS LEADERS WHO HAVE THE MARK OF THE WILD BEAST

  7th Plague, Hail = SPIRITUAL FLASHES OF LIGHT RESULTING IN THUNDEROUS WARNING OF DIVINE JUDGMENT TO ANTI-TYPICAL EGYPT (satans world) THE HAIL = HARD SMASHING BIBLE TRUTHS THAT PUMMEL ANTI-TYPICAL EGYPT (satan's world)

  8th Plague, Locusts = THE EXPOSING OF FALSE RELIGIOUS DOCTRINES BY THE ANNOINTED, SHOWING THESE DOCTRINES TO HAVE NO LIFE OR VALUE

  9th Plague, Darkness = THE EXPOSING OF SPIRITUAL, POLITICAL, RELIGIOUS, AND SCIENTIFIC INSIGHTS OF SATANS WORLD AS DARKNESS

  10th Plague, Murder of 1st born sons = FALSE RELIGION IS EXPOSED AS NOT BELONGING TO YHWH, BECAUSE ALL FIRSTBORN BELONG TO YHWH. A JUDGMENT AGAINST FALSE RELIGION.... (I am including the reference from the 65 WT directly, as it is curiously missing in the WT Pub Index. More evidence of selected pruning.... "

  ***

  So in the antitypical plague on the firstborn these are pictured as slain because of being exposed as not being devoted to Jehovah God, not being, in fact, his holy firstborn. They are dead to his service. All the Watch Tower Society’s literature has exposed the religious pretensions of these men,

  If I answered all 10 like this, I got 100% on my Gilead test. That and $2.00 will get you a large coffee at Starbucks....
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  Awakened at Gilead

  ATJ, I can't believe all the gilead Students just swallow this stuff up...
• 

  jws

  I was under the impression that there wasn't really enough historical evidence to even prove the exodus even happened, much less Moses leading it or any plagues.

  So the attempt to explain the plagues as a natural calamity seems odd. If the only stories of the plagues come from the Bible and you believe in the Bible, then you probably agree that God could have caused all of the plagues without relying on some chain-reaction from a natural calamity.

  The attempt to explain these things as natural would seem to be a way for a non-believer to explain-away a miracle. But with no evidence that the miracles even occurred, there's no need to explain-away anything.

  As it stands, these sound like a real stretch. For example, if the lice and flies are killing the cattle, you'd probably also have humans dying too. So sickness and death would be occuring before the 10th plague and would limit the shock of the firstborn dying.
• 

  behemot

  In fact, there is no solid evidence of the historicity of the exodus biblical account (for a discussion see Did the Exodus Happen?, in Neil Asher Silberman & Israel Finkelstein, The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts, New York, Free Press 2001, p. 48-71).

  P.S. I have to rectify something I mentioned in my first post on this topic: the tale about the seven plagues which I incorrectly ascribed to "J" is attributed by Van Seters to the most recent "D" (Deuteronomist) source, which is supposed to have been active during the exile.

  Behemot
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  Sarah Smiles

  I believe in the Exodus and the plagues on Egypt, but I do not believe in modern day fullfillment of the ten plagues by WTBTS Declaration against the world.

  This really should be an eye opening event for any Jehovah Witness that something might not be right about the WTBTS!

  1st Plague, Water to Blood = YHWH's denouncement on COMMERCIALISM

  2nd Plague, Frogs = YHWH's condemnation of MORAL UNCLEANNESS

  3rd Plauge, Gants = SPIRITUAL UNCLEANNESS OF FALSE RELIGION; CHRISTENDOM DOES NOT COMPARE TO YHWH'S PEOPLE

  4th Plague, Gadflies = UNSCRIPTURALNESS OF FALSE RELIGION/CHRISTENDOM IS LAID BARE BY JUDGEMENT MESSAGES

  5th Plague, Pestilence = THE DEATH OF THE SUPPORT OF ALL SATANS SYSTEM BY ITS SUPPORTERS, THANKS TO JUDGEMENT MESSAGES

  6th Plague, Boils = POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUS LEADERS WHO HAVE THE MARK OF THE WILD BEAST

  7th Plague, Hail = SPIRITUAL FLASHES OF LIGHT RESULTING IN THUNDEROUS WARNING OF DIVINE JUDGMENT TO ANTI-TYPICAL EGYPT (satans world) THE HAIL = HARD SMASHING BIBLE TRUTHS THAT PUMMEL ANTI-TYPICAL EGYPT (satan's world)

  8th Plague, Locusts = THE EXPOSING OF FALSE RELIGIOUS DOCTRINES BY THE ANNOINTED, SHOWING THESE DOCTRINES TO HAVE NO LIFE OR VALUE

  9th Plague, Darkness = THE EXPOSING OF SPIRITUAL, POLITICAL, RELIGIOUS, AND SCIENTIFIC INSIGHTS OF SATANS WORLD AS DARKNESS

  10th Plague, Murder of 1st born sons = FALSE RELIGION IS EXPOSED AS NOT BELONGING TO YHWH, BECAUSE ALL FIRSTBORN BELONG TO YHWH. A JUDGMENT AGAINST FALSE RELIGION.... (I am including the reference from the 65 WT directly, as it is curiously missing in the WT Pub Index. More evidence of selected pruning....

  I do not know where the WTBTS gets off thinking that there needs to be a fullfillment of the 10 plagues!

  Perhaps, I should check Rutherfords writings on the 10 plagues and post it, because you will laugh so hard your sides will burst then you will cry! Oh, did I do a fullfillment of Rutherford's writings in reverse? Laughter prior to bursting! LOL
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  Leolaia

  The plagues are especially meaningful from an Egyptian point of view. At the heart of Egyptian religion was the conflict between Horus, the patron and divine ruler of Egypt, and Seth who represents the forces of chaos and the enemies of Egypt. Seth (= Typhon) was viewed to be the force behind the Hyksos and other foreigners in Egypt, and Avaris (the capital of the Hyksos) was a well-known center of the worship of Seth; even in the Ramesside era (when it was rebuilt as Pi-Ramesses, the "Ramesses" mentioned in the book of Exodus), it still had a typhonic character. Baal, the tulerary deity of the Canaanites, was commonly identified with Seth (cf. the toponym Baal-Zephon in the exodus traditions, possibly a putative cultic site) by the Egyptians. There are quite a few Egyptian texts that refer to Seth as launching a series of plagues on Egypt (as late as the Hellenistic-era Potter's Oracle); the best known example is found in the Ipuwer Papyrus which attributes the chaos that broke out at the collapse of the Old Kingdom in strong typhonic terms (e.g. rivers turned to blood, crocodiles, i.e. Seth's favorite animal, feasting on fish, burned cities, famine, darkness over the land, etc.). The two exodus stories that the Egyptian historian Manetho (garbled via Josephus) concerning the Hyksos and the later group of diseased priests led by Osarsiph similarly follow a clear typhonic template. The biblical exodus traditions seem to be a variation on the theme (from a non-Egyptian point of view), YHWH the god of Israel dealing devastating blows against the gods of Egypt and pharaoh, leading to the migration of Israelites from the land.