Elders created new form of Expulsion - Looking for Suggestions

by Shepherd Book 50 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Shepherd Book
    Shepherd Book

    As many of you already know, my wife and I left the JWs simply because we discovered it was not true. We did not commit any ‘sins’, and we did not ‘sow seeds of doubt’ in the congregation. In fact, at the last meeting my wife attended, she still fully believed it was the truth.

    We tried fading, but the elders eventually came looking for us. When they stopped by just to check up on us, we were kind to them. Finally, though, one of the elders called us to set up a meeting. Those two phone conversations (which can be found here: http://www.watchtowerletters.com/Our_convo_elders_vids.html) occurred over a year after our last meeting, and nearly two years since we had last gone out in service.

    We wrote the elders a letter (http://www.watchtowerletters.com/our_letter_elders.html), stipulating that we were willing to meet with them as long as certain basic rights were secured, such as our ability to bring counsel and to record the meetings. We also asked that they inform us about the meetings in written advance.

    We never heard back from the elders. That was August of 2006. As I mentioned here before, in November and December of 2008 (over two years later!) I began receiving phone calls and emails from family members wondering if we had been disfellowshipped or disassociated. I told them that we were not, but that if they didn’t believe me, they could call the elders from my former congregation and check for themselves. My sister-in-law called the elders and then emailed us to tell us we were disfellowshipped.

    This surprised me, as we had never had a judicial meeting with the elders, nor had we ever been informed of being DF’d in abstentia. So I had a friend call one of those elders. That elder, after much hesitating, explained that we “really weren’t disfellowshipped” but that we were “removed from being Witnesses” and that that’s “pretty much the same thing” as being DF’d. When my friend (pretending to be a JW from another hall) expressed surprise at this, the elder said that’s understandable since no one outside the local congregation was informed about the ‘removal’. The elder said “Yeah, Shepherd Book wouldn’t know about it, because we never told him”. The elder also went on to disclose some of the contents of my letter. I recorded that conversation but, as of yet, have not put it on the internet.

    So…

    I’m wondering if anyone has any suggestions on how to proceed. The elders (evidently at the behest of the Society) have gone against the letter I sent them in multiple ways, and have evidently created a whole new category of expelling members just to as to find a loophole. I spoke with a lawyer, and she said I may have a legal case, as they broke their own rules (i.e., not informing me, creating a new kind of label, slandering me to others, divulging ecclesiastically privileged information), but the initial consultation with this lawyer would have cost $380 for the first hour. (Now that’s a crime – how many of us even make a tenth of that in an hour?) I also consulted with Michael Newdow and the FFRF, and though they were sympathetic, they pointed out their area of expertise concerns separation of church and state.

    If anyone has any connections/suggestions in the legal world, I’m listening. Or, if anyone has any ideas for getting this out to the public and/or other JWs, I’m all for it.

  • drwtsn32
    drwtsn32

    Sorry that this has happened and you didn't want it to, but I don't think there's anything you can do. I think the legal case for "slander" is weak, as is trying to say they went against their own rules.

    I have to say I'm not surprised one bit that they didn't respond to your letter about bringing counsel and recording it. They set the rules for their own stupid meetings and won't bend on them. They aren't under any obligation to, either. On the other hand you aren't under any obligation to attend them. And I'm not surprised at all that they just disfellowshipped you without a judicial committee. That has happened to many.

    This is just my opinion, but it won't gain you anything by trying to drag this out through the courts. If your purpose is to regain some respect from the JWs, don't bother. The rank and file JWs will only think even worse of you if you bring a legal case against them. In my opinion I would just let this go and try to move on. I know that can be difficult when you still have family in the org.

  • shamus100
    shamus100

    You'll never get anywhere trying to take them to court. Where you got put in is asking for meetings to be recorded. They don't like that.

    Just let them have fun with they're kangaroo court, and tell them to Fxxx off once and for all.

    Can't you just feel the power-tripping dweebs love from your home?

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    It's an internal religous matter, and the courts are wont to avoid interfering in these cases at all. If they won't force blood medicine, they aren't going to go into the bylaws for membership....

    I read of your stipulations and thought them logically sound. Unfortunately, you are dealing with JW's, were logic has not been seen in over 100 years.....

    I have to agree with Watson on this one. There isn't a whole lot to be done legally. Perhaps advertising this on the internet is the best way to make the best out of a bad situation....

    Btw, in case anyone is curious, if internally they establish you as apostate, (i.e. rejecting or disagreeing with the GB) then they don't need you around, they can disfellowship you in absentia.

    And yeah, I laughed when I read the distinction the elder made about you not being a JW anymore. I can only imagine how that sounded..... "No you weren't disfellowshipped. Yes, you were announced as no longer being a JW. No, there was no committee for you to meet with. Yes, even though its not disfellowshipping, you will be shunned just like you were disfellowshipped."

    I sure hope that elders brain got turned sideways and shook up to think about what he was saying....

  • blondie
    blondie

    If you don't want to be df'd, don't put anything in writing, and don't say anything to more than one jw. They can twist what you have to say to suit their own purposes. It's their game, their rules.

  • Shepherd Book
    Shepherd Book

    Drwtsn32-

    Maybe I didn't make it clear in the letter, but I was NOT disfellowshipped. The elder even admitted this to my friend. I was "removed" - whatever that means...?

    Shamus & Jeff-

    Yeah, I think pursuing a court case isa waste of time & money & ulitmately (probably) futile. I was looking for any OTHER suggestions. Of course, if someone on here is a lawyer & can discuss the matter without outrageous fees, that'd be cool; but I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on how to get the word out; how to make JWs aware of the bizarre lengths the Watchtower will go to in an effort to silence dissenting opions.

    Jeff-

    Yeah, the elder was shook up. He even called my friend back and tried to fumble over his words a second time.

    The phone call was very telling: Why not tell me I was "removed"? Why was the elder so nervous? Why was he suprised a JW from another hall knew about me? His dialogue led me to believe he had been warned that a lawsuit may transpire if he wasn't careful.

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff
    The phone call was very telling: Why not tell me I was "removed"? Why was the elder so nervous? Why was he suprised a JW from another hall knew about me? His dialogue led me to believe he had been warned that a lawsuit may transpire if he wasn't careful.

    You nailed it. The only reason that a concept like "disassociation" even exists is to provide legal cover. One doesn't even have to disassociate themselves to be disassociated.

    For example, did you know that it is impossible to be disfellowshipped for blood transfusions? "By ones own chosen course", that one disassociates himself, because they took blood. Its a distinction without a difference, all designed to kick you out.

  • Shepherd Book
    Shepherd Book

    Jeff-

    Yeah, I vaguely recall reading that back when I was a JW. It's a good point, though.

    It seems, then, that if you want to "successfully" fade, you must:

    1) Be very quiet about what you've discovered.

    and

    2) Not have any superfine relatives that feel it's their mission from Jehovah to punish you.

    I suppose it also helps if you weren't that popular of a JW in the first place. In my case, everyone noticed as soon as I was gone.

  • Mary
    Mary

    Instead of going to court, I would contact your local newspapers and give them the story along with the names of the elders. If there's one thing that the WTS can't control, it's the media (which of course, is run directly by Satan himself).

    They hate this sort of negative publicity, especially when they're caught in their own lies as seems to be the case here. If I were you, I'd phone this elder direct, (make sure you're taping the conversation), and ask him to please explain his actions. Watch the idiot flounder.

    Can you see Jesus acting in such a manner? Unbe-frigging-livable.

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    You could try appealing it to the wts if you want. The procedures are outlined in the Flock book and clearly were not followed.

    Your local reporters are your friend, if you want to publicize the unChristian behavior of the religion. Look in your local paper for reporters who do investigative stories and call them to ask them to do a story. If they don't return your calls, write or email them with a brief synopsis of the story and ask them to cover it. Offer an exclusive--meaning you will not be interviewed by other reporters--to increase your chances. It may be fairly unlikely your story would get covered, but this is how you can try.

    Failing that, you could try writing letters to the editor or submit an op-ed on ritual shunning. Or find a public venue to give a talk about your experience, such as community centers, etc.

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