Article: The Atheist's Dilemma

by BurnTheShips 150 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Twitch

  classic,...
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  beksbks
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  BurnTheShips
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  tenyearsafter

  One statement Dawkins has made on numerous occasions is that one reason he is an atheist is that he finds the idea of being accountable to a "Big Brother" figure a deplorable concept. With that attitude, it would be unlikely that Dawkins would weigh the case for or against the existence of God with an open and unbiased mind. I would expect a similar bias in considering the case against the existence of God as viewed by a Christian with strong convictions.

  It reminds me of one of my favorite sayings: "Truth is what you believe".
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  Homerovah the Almighty

  The only evidence of Gods are the stories told by ignorant fearful men from a very long time ago,

  to support that claim why aren't there any newly found gods being discovered and related to us humans today.

  Just because there are so many men wanting to bask in the power of

  the gods doesn't necessarily mean there are any.

  Therefore saying there are no gods is very detrimental and damaging to the ones that say there are ,

  ask any GB member and he'll tell you quite clearly.
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  WTWizard

  I prefer drawing hypotheses--and right now, my working hypothesis is that God is nothing more than an infinitely wicked Being that is bent on creating stagnation and frustration. The evidence supporting this hypothesis is within my own life--every time the opposite sex doesn't give me a chance, and this goes on methodically, there has to be a force or being that is causing this. There has to be some being that is continually holding me back.

  One sure way to destroy that hypothesis would be if I actually started getting good things in my life that I had been previously missing out on because of this. I have firmly ruled out the existence of a beneficial God, because all the good I have seen was explained by pure science, as are most or all of the "miracles" and other signs of a benevolent God. And, if an angel would show up in front of me, I would probably believe that it was lying and expect firm proof of fulfillment of whatever promise it made (rather than "Just for not believing, it will not happen" (which would only reinforce my hypothesis of a malevolent God, probably to the extent of constituting proof of a malevolent God).

  Until it's proven one way or another by science, I am still open to changing my working hypothesis via actual physical evidence.
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  AllTimeJeff

  I am spiritually sympathetic in some ways to your posted article BTS, but there are a few things that represent a problem here.

  Atheists don't promote faith in anything. To say that Atheists are promoting a non belief in god is also akin to saying that I promote a non belief in Darth Vadar.

  Simply put, without evidence of their real existence, God is no different then the bad side of Annakin Skywalker, whom, I have been informed by reasonably well positioned sources, is also fictional.

  Personally, my views have evolved quite a bit on this matter. I don't think the traditional atheist/theist argument is productive at all, as in my view, it represents people at different evolutions of their psyche and experience. We don't argue for god at all really, we argue for where we are in our search for meaning and purpose.

  I would certainly make the case that there are more simplistic and nuanced approaches to this, and the responses to one degree or another here demonstrate this.

  BTS, what I think many who argue that Bible-God MUST exist fail to realize, is that those who properly question you for evidence are themselves using an intellect and a heart theists would maintain god gave them, to question.

  I myself would have no problem for someone across the city I live in to doubt that I exist, even if others said I do, simply because they would not have seen me, heard of me, saw a video of me, or have otherwise been affected by me. I feel if god exists, she feels the same way, and she also understands the Atheists dilemma, as she did create that pesky little brain.

  While god I am sure understands, it is clear that most theists refuse to understand or respect Atheists for their rational thinking. Could it be that it has nothing to do with defending god, but rather, a belief system you are beholden to and rely on?

  I am struck by the fact that when atheists make the simple statement "I don't believe in (your) god, as I have never seen nor experienced her personally. Can you please present your evidence?", they get a varying amount of grief. Usually a lot of grief, but not a lot of direct answers to their questions.

  This isn't surprising, as history teaches us that no society likes it when their superstitious deity is questioned. History also teaches us that those deities failed in what they promised for the world. (according to accepted canonical scripture) Christianity? Bible-god? NEXT!

  BTS, the Atheists dilemma isn't that facts are with theists. Their dilemma isn't in trying to build a movement that takes away ones personal right and ability to believe in invisible people. Their dilemma is in trying to find truth, beauty, and meaning, without having to be slapped around by organized religions of all stripes insisting that their "god" is responsible for this, thus meriting ALL of mankind's collective worship.... under pain of......... (feel free to fill in your own description, I am satisfied with all that I have heard from all theists to last a lifetime.)

  Under pain of... well it is a pain isn't it?
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  AllTimeJeff

  One statement Dawkins has made on numerous occasions is that one reason he is an atheist is that he finds the idea of being accountable to a "Big Brother" figure a deplorable concept. With that attitude, it would be unlikely that Dawkins would weigh the case for or against the existence of God with an open and unbiased mind. I would expect a similar bias in considering the case against the existence of God as viewed by a Christian with strong convictions.

  This is another matter entirely. On another board, we discussed a bit about rejecting god on two levels. The point being, and I think it well taken, that even if god did exist, would he merit worship as described in the bible.

  There is a lot to our existence that argues against Bible-god, who I must say, is a real prick with a quick trigger temper.

  So go ahead and sift through whatever you call "evidence". Please post a picture of it when you do. Then we can talk about how much he MERITS worship.....

  That..... is a theistic dilemma.
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  Fadeout

  Fish has spent his whole career pointing out why it wouldn't: not because of the nature of angels, but because of the nature of interpretation. As long as Dawkins remains who he is now, he will remain incapable of seeing an angel of the Lord.

  Campos really blows it here IMHO.

  Anchoring his argument to an analysis of another's assumed reaction to a hypothetical situation is a poor decision that relies on as much faith as the viewpoint he is attempting to dismantle.

  After all, a genuine atheist must interpret such an event as a temporarily inexplicable hallucination, or a sudden psychotic break, or a clever technological trick - in short, as anything but evidence that atheism is false. (An atheist who questions the truth of atheism is ceasing to be a genuine atheist precisely to the extent that he is asking himself a genuine question).

  Proceeding to swallow ever more of his own foot, Campos demonstrates an infantile level of knowledge about basic definitions. His invention, the "genuine atheist," has characteristics by which atheists under normal circumstances have never been defined; namely, their ability to consider the concept of a god. He claims that such consideration belies the genuineness of one's atheism.

  It is not only the positive affirmation that 'God is not' that falls under the umbrella of atheism, but the lack of belief in a god; no belief. Campos picks only the strain of atheism that is comparable to the equally illogical affirmation of faith found in Christianity, and chooses that as the representative for "genuine atheism."

  I say hogwash, bah humbug.
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  Fadeout

  And I should note in fairness that I think BTS realizes the above, as he stated:

  the author is comparing some Atheists to Christians in this respect.

  "Some" atheists is right... and I would guess that those constitute a minority of professed atheists.