We Will Recover!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Warlock 28 Replies latest jw friends
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Goshawk
Insanity is pulling the handle for the same people and expecting different results when they are safely elected back in office.
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hamilcarr
- The trillions already spent on bailouts and buyouts make it clear "the cost of action will be great." It is already great, and it has failed miserably. Why should anyone believe that pouring still more trillions into the same bottomless pit will now, somehow, prove effective?
Why should I believe that doing nothing will prove effective? Do we have a precedent that lethargy really helps? That's what I call faith.
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The Oracle
Good ole George Celente sounds like a bit of a negative and bitter poo poo.
He does make a few good points however. And I I do agree there will be more tough times ahead.
An adjustment in lifestyle will likely be necessary for many, but thankfully true happiness does not come from how much money you have - or how much you make.
Our individual contributions to society in general, and in to the economy will collectively dictate our future.
Cheers,
The Oracle
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slimboyfat
hamilcarr, the cure for overindebtedness is not more debt. This is just common sense. We should "do something", and that is pay down our debts, cut spending, and accept a lower standard of living as inevitable. The scene of this world is now changing.
The left is making a mistake if they allow the debate to be framed around the right's endorsement of frugalness and the left's promotion of profligacy to get us out of this mess.
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WTWizard
They sure know how to do one thing right--set up the stage for massive inflation that is going to make us wish to go back to 1974-75.
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hamilcarr
hamilcarr, the cure for overindebtedness is not more debt.
I think you're confusing cause and consequence. Public debt is not the cause of this recession. Government spending must fuel the economy by creating sustainable employment and restoring confidence and purchasing power. In the long run, smart deficit spending combined with risk management is the cure for any recession. The government should learn to be frugal when the private sector is thriving.
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slimboyfat
Government spending must fuel the economy by creating sustainable employment and restoring confidence and purchasing power.
Keynes was a genius, but he was writing for difference circumstances. When he advised government spending in time of contraction he did not envisage levels of debt such that the creditworthiness of the state itself should be called into question.
What we need is not policies that would promote growth, as if what we are facing is a normal recession. What we need it to cut our cloth and recognise that we are all a lot poorer than we thought we were. The alternative by trying to 'spend our way out of recession' is a complete failure of the system, anarchy and war.
The government should learn to be frugal when the private sector is thriving.
Indeed governments should have, but they did not, and the bust is all the bigger because of it. But we are where we are and the best way out of this would be to cut spending and accept a very deep recession, in preference to the failure of nation states and international disorder.
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hamilcarr
Keynes was a genius, but he was writing for difference circumstances.
But human psychology didn't change over the last decades. At times when people see encouraging prospects for the future, they're better able to work together constructively, supporting democratic principles. When prospects for growth falter,society could easily slip into totalitarianism. That's what happened in post-WWI Europe with an increase of antisemitism, racism, fascism, etc. The United States in the 1930s were a notable exception. The reason for this was their great spirit of cooperation, institutional change and progress embodied in the New Deal and other modern liberal ideals. I think that that era has constributed more to the global status of the US than any other period.
If one allowed the current system to crash without bright prospects of a solid recovery, all these law-abiding citizens could easily lose their confidence in democracy (happening now already). Hence, government lethargy would be a big mistake imho.
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slimboyfat
When prospects for growth falter,society could easily slip into totalitarianism.
What if growth is no longer possible? What should we do then? This is not the 1930s. This is more like 1914. But really it is different from both. Let's not 'learn the lesson of the last war' so to speak, and apply the wrong solution to new problems.
The biggest problem we now face is that globalisation has bound all our destinies together. This was not the case in the 1930s which was during an era of protectionism.
If you allowed to system to crash without bright prospects of a solid recovery, all these law-abiding citizens could easily lose their confidence in democracy, itself (happening now already). Government lethargy would be a big mistake imho.
There may be problems either way, and at this point it may be impossible to avert serious risk to our open society no matter what the course of public policy. But I can't believe that states taking on so much debt that paying it off seems incredible is a wise course of action.
Cutting public spending and paying off debt would not be "government lethargy", it would be a serious response to a very serious situation.