House votes to require pledges to the flag...problems coming the Witnesses' way?

by passwordprotected 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  passwordprotected

  http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090313_16_A1_OKLAHO6369

  House votes to require pledges
  The bill would make oaths to the state and U.S. flags a daily classroom event.
  By RANDY KREHBIEL AND BILL SHERMAN World Staff Writers
  Published: 3/13/2009 3:29 AM
  Last Modified: 3/13/2009 3:36 AM
  OKLAHOMA CITY — If one pledge to a flag is good, two is even better, the Oklahoma House of Representatives decided Thursday.
  
  The House voted to require that the pledges to both the American and state flags be recited every day in public school classrooms.
  
  The bill by Rep. Lewis Moore, R-Arcadia, began as a requirement for the pledge to the U.S. flag only, but was quickly subject to amendments by Rep. Mike Brown, D-Tahlequah, and Rep. Ryan McMullen, D-Burns Flat, adding the state pledge requirement.
  
  The move touched off a parliamentary donnybrook with the original proponents of the bill momentarily in the position of deciding whether to vote against their own bill.
  
  After about a half-hour of discussion and procedural maneuvering, the measure passed, 96-0.
  
  The effect of the bill is likely to be little more than a lot of school children learning the pledge to the Oklahoma flag, which reads: "I salute the flag of the State of Oklahoma. Its symbols of peace unite all people."
  
  The bill provides that individual students be informed they may opt out of reciting the pledge if they do not wish to participate. Under long-established legal precedent, individuals cannot be forced to recite pledges or oaths or participate in group recitations such as those described by the bill.
  
  Moore said House Bill 2189, which now goes to the Senate, was designed to promote patriotism and loyalty.
  
  "In Oklahoma City, 40 percent of the students are Hispanic, and we wanted

  to maintain our culture and help them assimilate into America, and into the Oklahoma culture," he said.
  
  The bill also requires that instruction in flag history and etiquette be given once a year at every grade level.
  
  Moore said that most Oklahoma students already recite the pledge daily in public school classrooms, but some do not.
  
  This bill would ensure that every classroom teacher leads the class in the pledge daily.
  
  "I'd say this much," said Chuck Thornton, legal director for the American Civil Liberties Union in Oklahoma. "This is probably one of the more xenophobic Legislatures that we've had."
  
  He said the ACLU in general is not in favor of compulsory flag salutes and has concerns about the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance because of its phrase "under God."
  
  "It would be nice to see our Legislature providing more funding to education so perhaps we could have classes that better explain the Bill of Rights rather than taking time out of the day to recite these pledges," Thornton said.
  The bill also could raise concerns among Jehovah's Witnesses, whose religion forbids them to pledge allegiance to any entity but God. A Jehovah's Witness spokesman did not return phone calls Thursday.
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  Gill

  Very concerning and not just for Jehovah's Witnesses.

  The United States is turning into a totalitarian state that even Hitler's Germany or Stalin's Russia would have been proud of.

  Witnesses and other dissenters may have to 'home school' but even home school is becoming illegal in California.

  This is a grave concern for anyone who cares about freedom.

  I have withdrawn my own daughter from school in the UK for many reasons mainly the school being violent and out of control but one of the other reasons was that they are Forced to pray three times a day and punished if they don't pray 'correctly'.

  The maniacs and fanatics of all colours are taking away our freedoms all over the world.

  We don't need a boat to escape.....we need a rocket.

  The world has gone MAD
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  mkr32208

  Sorry but the witnesses have already won this particular fight at the supreme court in a legal victory won by the Witnesses in the case West Virginia State Board of Educaion vs Barnette, in which the court ruled that school children could not be forced to pledge allegiance to or salute the flag.
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  Gill

  mkr - is this a recent victory?
• 

  cameo-d

  they are Forced to pray three times a day and punished if they don't pray 'correctly'.

  Gill....Is it some sort of generic mother earth kind of salute? Forced? Three times a day? Do they bow toward Mecca?

  When did this start? I don't recall that we received any news about this...at least I didn't see it publicized before. What age are these children?

  I think we will see "unifying " regulations to bring about the groundwork for more "interfaith" behavior.

  Personally, I always thought this flag worship and pledge of loyalty brought about division between countries. Nationalism is not much different from racism and sexism. They are all dividing elements and promote inequality among people.

  Then again, this bill could be a "false flag"...intended to get people stirred up in order to actually promote something that is unstated.
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  Gill

  Cameo-d - My child went to a Church of England School that suddenly began enforcing praying at the beginning of the day, before dinner and at the end of the day.....also during assemblys, of course.

  Anyway,children who did not pray 'properly' had to go into a room on their own with the head teacher and sit and practice praying 'properly'. My child was not too sure herself what 'properly' was but body position had to be correct, head bowed, eyes close, lip synching with the prayer etc.

  Maniacal but i believe brought in because of the faith of the school and the very bad, poor, deprived, violent back ground of far too many of the children as a means of conctrol - fear of someone else even bigger and stronger than every one else....

  It didn't work or help but the praying goes on.

  I brought my child out of school and tried to get her into another local school but they were all full to the brim and we were only in the catchment area of the Faith school, so am having to home school her temporarily until she goes to a new very good school.

  What is concerning is the enforcement and punishment but I believe it is a 'faith school thing' rather than a general british school newism.

  Faith schools are very much a law unto themselves and I found the religious zealot who ran the school very disturbing in a Control Freak way and the way she looked down on the parents who tried to protect their children.
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  Jim_TX

  " The bill provides that individual students be informed they may opt out of reciting the pledge if they do not wish to participate. Under long-established legal precedent, individuals cannot be forced to recite pledges or oaths or participate in group recitations such as those described by the bill. "

  So there you go. It appears that there is an 'opt-out' option.

  I see this 'bill' as only affecting a few areas... if that.

  Regards,

  Jim TX
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  garybuss

  By nature, the "pledge", is just poetry. Only extremely superstitious people would imagine that some ghost or god will harm them for reciting poetry. That's just insane!
  
  
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  chickpea

  harkens back to my days as
  a kid in catholic school... (60s)
  at the end of every lunch break
  we said the pledge of allegiance
  to the US flag, sang the texas
  anthem (texas, oh texas, oh
  hail the mighty state) and said
  the "pledge to the cross" ( i pledge
  allegiance to the cross and to him who
  died thereon...)

  i still consider myself american
  but havent pledged to the flag
  in decades, left the catholic church
  AND texas at 18.... so far as i know
  everything is still extant, including me!
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  blondie

  So this is only locally in Oklahoma. I doubt that Oklahoma will be able to pass a law to override something that has been established in the US Supreme Court.

  I never understood the need to recite some words to prove your patriotism. An old army vet from the Cold War era said nothing would stop the "commies" from saying the pledge.

  Blondie