A question about Jesus

by startingover 13 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  startingover

  My first post here, been lurking for quite a while. This place has been a real help in my journey.

  A little background...raised a JW from day one, 3rd generation, 3 grandparents of the annointed, father and mother Gilead graduates, father always prominent in the org. Never really felt I fit in but played the game. Finally couldn't do it anymore and lived with the guilt. Then comes the internet and boards like this. Not DF'd or DA'd, just trying to slip away, have a loydal Jdub wife who doesn't like me reading info contained here. She just can't see what I see.

  Anyway, in my search, I originally read CofC, which completely changed my thinking (as well as my relationship with my wife who lost her breath when she saw me reading it). Since then however I have come to believe the Bible isn't what I always thought it to be, I presently believe it's just myth and history. I have also read some things that make me believe that Jesus was not real or at least wasn't what the Bible makes him out to be.

  My question is...why are our calendars based upon his birth if he was just myth?

  Any input is greatly appreciated.
• 

  JanH

  welcome here, startingover

  you go thru much the same process as I did some years ago.
  

  My question is...why are our calendars based upon his birth if he was just myth?

  Well, the day and many month names are based on various norse and greco-roman deities, and I doubt many would say they were anything but myths.

  That our calendar dates from an estimated (wrongly estimated, of course) year for the birth of Jesus just reflects that the people who devised that calendar believed he had existed (and that he was divine). Of course they did; they were Christians!

  In ancient times, people had far less knowledge about even their close past than we do today, and people were far more prone to believe all sorts of superstitious myths. It is mindboggling sometimes to read what legends even intellectuals in ancient times believed as factual stories.

  - Jan
  --
  "Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets
• 

  TweetieBird

  Hey Jan, are you sure you are not Jesus? You look a little like him.
• 

  Billygoat

  startingover,

  Welcome! Glad to see you've moved out of the lurking status. Looking forward to reading more of your posts!

  Andi
• 

  funkyderek

  I've just finished reading The Calendar by David Ewing Duncan, which details the history of our calendar and explains it's many oddities. If memory serves, it was a monk named Dionysius who first (wrongly) calculated the birth of Jesus at what we now refer to as 1AD and suggested the Anno Domini system. I think it was about 800AD before this system was commonly used even in the Christian world, and it wasn't until 1949 (with China joining in)that it became universally accepted. Obviously, the only reason it's used is that Christianity became dominant. That was due to Constantine's conversion, which was mainly for pragmatic reasons. So, in short, it's just one of those quirky historical accidents.

  Disclaimer: All the above "facts" are from memory and some may be wildly off, but the general idea is right... probably.

  --
  "The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794.
• 

  Unclepenn1

  A better question would be, why would the apostles suffer and die horrible deaths just to keep alive a fantasy or a lie? All they had to do was deny that they had seen the risen Lord and they would not have been killed. (see Apostles deaths http://www.logicsouth.com/~poptop/howdied.html)

  Penn
• 

  Pureheart

  I did borrow this information from a book about Jesus. I am in full agreement with the contents.

  Flavius Josephus, a first-century Jewish historian, wrote of James, whom he identified as “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.”
  Essentially, however, all that is known about Jesus was recorded by his first-century followers. Their reports have been preserved in the Gospels—Bible books written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.
  Although references to Jesus Christ by early secular historians are meager, such references do exist. Cornelius Tacitus, a respected first-century Roman historian, wrote: “The name [Christian] is derived from Christ, whom the procurator Pontius Pilate had executed in the reign of Tiberius.” Suetonius and Pliny the Younger, other Roman writers of the time, also referred to Christ. In addition, Flavius Josephus, a first-century Jewish historian, wrote of James, whom he identified as “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.”
  Critics, nevertheless, point out that all that we really know about Jesus is found in the Bible. No other contemporary records concerning him exist, they say. Even H. G. Wells wrote: “The old Roman historians ignored Jesus entirely; he left no impress.
  By his dynamic teachings and by the way he lived in harmony with them, Jesus has powerfully affected the lives of people for nearly two thousand years. As one writer aptly expressed it: “All the armies that ever marched, and all the navies that ever were built, and all the parliaments that ever sat, all the kings that ever reigned, put together have not affected the life of man upon this earth as powerfully.”
  Alexander the Great, Charlemagne (styled “the Great” even in his own lifetime), and Napoleon Bonaparte were powerful rulers. By their formidable presence, they wielded great influence over those they commanded. Yet, Napoleon is reported to have said: “Jesus Christ has influenced and commanded people in his absense.

  Pureheart
• 

  Seeker4

  Startingover,

  Welcome. Your story sounds much like mine, and I'm also married to a 3rd generation JW who is at the Kingdom Hall right now, actually. I've come to many of the same conclusions as you. The bible as a combination of myth and history are my thoughts exactly.

  Jan and Funky-D answered the calendar question quite well. So many accidents of history.

  As far as Unclepenn's thought that: "...why would the apostles suffer and die horrible deaths just to keep alive a fantasy or a lie? All they had to do was deny that they had seen the risen Lord and they would not have been killed." Well, it's sort of obvious that if much of the story of Jesus was either mythology or mythologized, the same would be true for all of these tales of martyrdom among the disciples and apostles. There is actually very little real "history" in any of these accounts.

  And as far as people being willing to "die horrible deaths" to keep alive what others see as a fantasy, well, we watch it every day on the news. On Sept. 11, 19 young men were willing to die horrible deaths (and sacrifice thousands of innocents with them) for what Christians would see as a "fantasy or a lie" and the same is true of dozens of Palestinian young men who strap bombs to themselves and set them off every few days in Israel, or JWs who die for refusing a blood transfusion. Being willing to die for one's belief in a myth? Commonplace, in my opinion.

  S4
• 

  Unclepenn1

  >And as far as people being willing to "die horrible deaths" to keep alive what others see as a fantasy, well, we watch it every day on the news.

  People die for a lot of stupid things. My point is, why would someone die for something they KNOW is a lie? Out of the 12 members of the original Mormon elder board who had signed a statement saying that they had actually seenthe missing 'plates of gold' that Joseph Smith had apparently found, 11 of them recanted on their death beads. They did not want to go to the grave with the thought of having decieved people. They were not tortured, they just recanted. Now take a group of men that were crucyfied, boiled in hot oil, slayed with a sword, etc, and absolutely none of them recant and say it was all made up?

  Penn
• 

  startingover

  Thanks for the input and the welcome, my question has been answered. I can't post very often as I have a wife who would not approve and since we work together it doesn't leave many opportunities. Only on meeting nights (she rarely misses anymore)

  It continues to amaze me how much a truly open mind can take in. I always felt like I was so open-minded as a dub, what a joke. I have often wondered if there was no internet where I would be. Probably just living in the guilt. I am so grateful for forums such as this. The free interchange of information, thoughts, ideas is priceless.

  Thanks again everyone