Is it really just innocent words?

by lonestar63 36 Replies latest jw friends

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  parakeet

  Is it really just innocent words?

  No, they're not innocent at all. They are words, not of innocence, but of experience, one that reflects the anger, betrayal, and misery of having been a dub.

  But if an active JW stumbles on here, and reads those phrases, his cult trained mind will scream APOSTATES!!!, and he will be outa here in a flash, without having a chance to learn what this sight can offer, and the real "Truth" it exposes.

  If the active dub "stumbles" (like your word choice there) onto this site, it won't matter if every poster here uses the most polite language. If he's a diehard dub, his "cult-trained mind" (i.e. braindead) will take just a few seconds longer to scream "Apostates!" and leave.

  I think it can be damaging, and stop someone from actually learning here.

  If a dub comes here to learn, he/she's already having serious doubts. I don't think a few less-than-flattering terms will put them off.
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  GromitSK

  I guess I would ask "what is the purpose of this site?". It appears to me, as a newcomer, that it serves many purposes and acting as a means to ventilate anger is I think as valid as any of the other purposes. It is possible that some of the site objectives may conflict and IMHO there is no problem with this. I left the Borg in 86 (or maybe 87) and at the time I wasn't looking for fault in the organisation as I was booted out. It was a long while before I came across anything that hinted the Org was a CoS. This is one of many many places a JW could look for answers to questions they may have, some are neutral, some are pushing some other flavour of christianity, some are the brainchild of anti-cult organisations. If a JW is looking on the internet for answers to questions sooner or later they will find something palatable. If this site isn't for everyone I wouldn't be too concerned.
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  jwfacts

  I labour with this question.

  I think though that people are here because they need to unload, it is part of the healing. To be concerned by what a JW may think is counter-intuitive and means the WTS still is controlling our actions. Whether we call it the Witchtowel or Watchtower a JW will still quickly see this as an apostate site.

  On the other hand there are sites out there that do tone down the agression. For instance, I have been very careful to keep to terminology in jwfacts.com as accurate and factual as possible so there are places that JWs can go to that they will not find as offensive.
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  BonaFide

  I have to agree. When I first came on here, and when a friend of mine came on here, even though I had some serious questions, I was somewhat offended by some of the expressions such as Witlesses and Kingdum Hell. Those who write those things will say of course, "Well it doesn't bother ME." Yes, but might it offend NEW ones? That is the point being made.

  Yes, people have the right to say what they want. But the way we say things sometimes blocks our message. I am having way better results with my friends since I toned down my rhetoric.

  BF
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  TheSilence

  I'm not personally a fan of those types of phrases, either. But perhaps there is a reason there are so many who use them. Remember, we are all in our own stage of leaving. We are all being effected by this to different degrees. I was never baptised so my family ties, though they may sometimes be strained, are still there. I was never molested as a child and been ignored by the elders. I was never told as a battered wife to pray more, study more, etc. I was very lucky and still there is a lot of hurt and anger I live with. How can we say to those who have suffered those things that their venue to vent their anger has to be turned off because it might offend someone else? Or perhaps they didn't suffer those things but are simply in a different stage of healing? Do we bring people to this site, let them learn the truth about the truth and then say, okay, you can heal this far but no further than this because you venting your anger within a group that understands may turn others away?

  This site is a place to discuss things related to Jehovah's Witnesses. Some of that which is discussed is the anger over being lied to, deceived, and used. I have read posts that were much more vitrolic than the odd turn of phrase that offends and we would never censor those because they contain the essense of truth about what this religion can do.

  If someone really wants to research the other side of their religion a few unsavory phrases are not going to turn them away. And if someone is not ready to research the other side of their religion this site will turn them away with or without those same unsavory phrases.

  Jackie
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  jeanniebeanz

  My first reaction to the posts on this site when I 'stumbled' onto it was, "Run, Baby... Run!" In spite of that initial reaction, I still wanted to find a 'safe' place to talk to people who had lost everything and everyone by leaving the (I'd say "Borg" but given the nature of this thread, don't think it quite right) WTS... so, I found a much more innocuous site to visit, Women Awake I think it was, and then Tishies board... more of a beginners step.

  Although initially my "bible trained conscience" was repulsed by some of the comments made here, eventually the curiosity as to whether or not those comments and opinions (expressed in such a shocking way as to sear them into my mind) had any basis in fact drew me back to the site. So, you could say that the very nature of the comments made me return to learn more... when I was ready for the truth (please pardon the expression) I came back.

  So, I'd like to thank those of you who don't sugar coat the facts and dance around the sensibilities of the timid. I may not have returned otherwise.

  Jean
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  lonestar63

  Not meant to sound harsh here, but this discussion board is not a sales pitch.

  Among many things, and I know you know this Lonestar, it is a sounding board for a lot of angry people, angry that many things they were taught to be true, are not. Just part of a personal journey that they choose to make public.

  If a "weaker one" stumbles across this site, it will probably tittilate first, then shock. They may run away, but then they will find it hard to stay away.

  Wasn't harsh at all watson. I understand the anger, i was "in" the better part of 2 decades. I had a moment during a meeting with the Elders, and i'm fortunate i wasn't arrested at the Kingdom Hall. This was at a point i was almost out, but my wife was still going. A smug elder said something he shouldn't have said to my wife in front of me. I backed him into a couch and he sat down in shock as i told him he was 2 seconds away from being beaten half to death. They quickly apologized to her, and let the matter drop. The P.O. was one of the elders. I couldn't believe later they didn't come after me for my reaction in the Hall. They were in the wrong though, and knew it. My point in my OP was not necessarily a "weaker one" that stumbles on here, but a JW online looking for JW sites.

  I would say that the vast majority of us do not use such terms. Some use them too much and it clouds what they are saying. When compared to the terms that jws use to describe the nameless and faceless millions of non-jws, I would think it is not that unusual for them.

  goats

  professed Christians

  so-called Christians

  false Christians

  worldly

  worldling

  wicked

  unbelievers

  unknowingly worshippers of Satan

  Thanks Blondie for the insight. Helps me understand a bit where it comes from.

  Jamiebowers, i think you misunderstood my intent. I'm not interested in herding ex jw's, nor am i interested in censoring them. The anger they feel is understandable. I used to have the same anger, but i've let it go for the most part. What i am interested in is how helpful this sight was to me, and how it can and will be helpful to others. If a JW stumbles on here, how much better would it be if he read enough to become interested in learning more. I think some of the phrases used can prevent that from happening. Their cult trained mind will tell them to flee.
• 

  lonestar63

  I really have to stop saying if a JW "stumbles" onto this sight.

  Sorry, rereading made me realize how silly that sounds.
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  SnakesInTheTower

  jackie:

  If someone really wants to research the other side of their religion a few unsavory phrases are not going to turn them away. And if someone is not ready to research the other side of their religion this site will turn them away with or without those same unsavory phrases.

  exactly. I have mentioned this on occasion but the more I thought about it, the more I came to a similar realization.

  I do occasionally use the term "Borg", but if it is on a more serious topic, such as experiences of people leaving the religion or other major issues where kindness should be excersised, I try to avoid the derogatory terms some of us have adopted since leaving.

  WTWizard has some of the most colorful terms for JWs.... and I usually laugh..but sometimes I cringe because I think of what doubting/lurking JWs (aka "dubs") might think...("crazy apostates").... if they are ready to search...it wont put them off..it didnt scare me away, and I was a deeply ingrained elder when I first started lurking...

  Snakes ()
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  no more kool aid

  Lonestar, I agree when I first saw such terminology it just triggered an uncomfortablness in me. I tend to not use these words either. But I do think there are varying degrees of anger. I'm angry that I wasted so many years of my life and kind of have a warped sense of things. I can move on because I got out with my immediate family and my life relatively intact. Some have not been so lucky and I think that their vernacular reflects the tumult in their life.