Counting Time: Is it Scriptural?

by cameo-d 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  cameo-d

  What is the purpose of punching Jehovah's timecard?

  Doesn't WT psychologically imply that Jehovah "owes" them paradise because they have "worked" for it?

  It seems there is a scripture somewhere about "love does not keep an accounting".

  Perhaps one of you can find the scriptural incidence.

  If JWs feel they are truly doing something good, why would not "goodness" be it's own reward?

  Time cards are indeed keeping an account and expecting something in return.

  If "love does not seek it's own"...doesn't that mean we are to love and 'do good for others' without expectation in return?

  Doesn't keeping time set one up for always (selfishly) expecting something in return for whatever you do?

  If we apply this same obligation/expectation to other people is it not a selfish ploy of guilt and manipulation?

  Do they not come to believe that others actually "owe" them?

  i.e. I loaned you my hammer last week, you should ( read : owe it to me) let me use your chainsaw today.

  i.e. I pioneered for forty years, Jehovah owes me a luxury paradise. (a court can award you anything...collecting it is quite something else!)

  Is this what Jesus taught in his instructions of what love is or isn't?

  Does it examplify the teachings of how we are supposed to love one another?

  Does this action of "counting time" uphold any scriptural command?

  Or does it conflict with scripture?
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  carla

  My jw has always said that counting time is not actually scriptural but because they are a large organization they do it just to keep track of things. God is organized and so are jw's. blah. But then my jw has not been one all that long so what do long time jw's say about the matter? Do they even attempt to tie it to some scripture? Then my jw always ends it with 'what's wrong with it anyway?' Doesn't matter that you have just spent a good 30-45 minutes discussing why it is wrong they will simply dismiss anything you said and regurgitate the current wt belief on the matter.
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  cameo-d

  My jw has always said that counting time is not actually scriptural

  then, if there is no scriptural basis for it, then wouldn't it fall under the category of "following in traditions of man"?

  Aren't JWs psyched up to expect a reward for their 'service"?
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  journey-on

  It would fall under the category of "being obedient to the faithful and discreet slave". If Jehovah has directed that this practice of turning in your time and placements be implemented, then as faithful robots followers, we should abide by it. There is scripture and then there is the organization. The organization always trumps scripture.
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  blondie

  The WTS points to accounts where attendance was taken at Pentecost 33 CE and the counts for those baptized, 3,000 and 5,000. Also when the 70 came back they had "reports" for Jesus. But no mention of hours, publications placed, etc.

  *** km 8/71 p. 2 Your Service Meetings ***Review report and results of congregation’s activities, number of pioneers, territory reached, signs of growth in numbers and in spirituality. (Luke 10:17)
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  garybuss

  Counting Time: Is it Scriptural?
  During the period that I challenged my assumptions and worked to re-educate myself, I made a Watch Tower Corporation flow chart with two columns, one for religious behaviors, and another for business behaviors. The reality I found was this: I was challenged to find behaviors of the Jehovah's Witness people that has any connection to worship or faith, without promoting the Watch Tower Corporation or distributing their production.
  
  The reporting of sales activity, sales charts, sales (service) meetings, distribution of items manufactured for sale (now called "donation" after 1990), calling groups "companies", and identifying workers as "publishers", are all business activities. In fact the basic identifying characteristic of an individual seen as a member in good standing requires the secular activities of study of sales techniques, promotion of the Watch Tower Corporation, and distribution of Watch Tower Corporation produced literature.
  
  So by way of a challenge: Make a list of everything the Witnesses formally do that is only dealing with worship and faith that has nothing to do with fundraising, literature distribution, or promoting the Watch Tower Corporations.
  
  I'll be interested to see that list.
  
  
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  Mrs. Fiorini

  I used to think that it made sense for the WT to keep track of the work being done so they could better manage it, sending more resources into areas that needed more attention, etc.

  Now I realize that there is a more important reason the WT has it's followers report their time. It puts pressure on them to keep performing. Others can see if they are "measuring up." They can be given "goals" to follow that increase the amount that they do. They can "prove" themselves worthy by making a minimum quota. It's all part of being in a cult.
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  gubberningbody

  I think everyone knows it's not right.

  If it was for the purpose of knowing the truth of what was actually done then the best way would have been for the reports to have been anonymous.

  I often wondered how anyone could pioneer before I'd pioneered. The key is to round up constantly. believe that Jehovah is a reasonable employer who wouldn't make you clock out when you had to go to the can, and go on long drives to the RV's that you know may or may not be there, hit some laundromats and "get your time started" asap by always having a non-baptized person you could call right after the meetings for FS. If you can eat lunch with a study then be sure to do that. Take a calligraphy class and then write calligraphic letters to not-at-homes (really slowly, by hand, praying before you draw the shape of each letter). (Be sure you count the time you stand at the post office mailing those)

  I know of one pio who set his clock at home to wake him up every half hour so he could call a list of RV's at convenience stores that were working all night, and also had on his phone a mini-sermon and got up early did laundromats and all the other things mentioned rounding and rounding so that he'd easily get in 12 hours a day. He'd "get his time in" in like 3-3.5 months and cruise the rest of the year.

  He was really funny and insane to boot, which is why I suppose he's disappeared.
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  reniaa

  actually Jesus just directed the appostles to do the preaching work the nitty gritty of it is left to them.

  We are not jews and need everything spelled out! as christians there is flexibility of having the ability to apply principle as well as make the directives work it is part of being assigned leaders.

  Did moses goto God on how to sort out his people or did he take the advice of his non-hebrew father-in-law?

  did God rebuke moses for taking this advice?

  This whole thread is a misdirection.

  The counting of time served a purpose and our leaders thought it necessary but I think lately they are leaving it more to self regulation. this is everyday stuff under the leaders direction.

  If they do something clearly against Gods ways and principles they have to account for it as moses did when he eventually sinned in taking Gods actions as his own while he was rebuked he wasn't cast off for it. Jesus our King allows for us to do everyday ruling ourselves till he comes but he still asks for us to make sure we fight the serious sins.

  this is why in greek scriptures we have scriptures asking for forgiveness for sins we unknowingly commit and pray for holy spirit guidance.
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  John Doe

  We are not jews and need everything spelled out!

  So, counting time is optional then?