The emphasis is on Jesus, even in the New World Translation (page 2)

thomas15

Thank you for the kind words. Passwordprotected, I appreciate your firm stand for the Jesus of the Bible. Jimmy, I want you to know that there is a person out there of whom you have never met and don't know, but I remember you and that other strange dude oompah in my prayers all the time.

As I mentioned above, I have many Bibles. For what it is worth, When I'm really studying the word, I use the NIV and the NASB. For late night reading for enjoyment and my carry to church version is the NKJV. When I'm looking for a challange, I grab the KJV, the Tyndale New Testament or the Geneva Bible.

My reason for mentioning this and I'm again not trying to hijack this thread is the the NIV is very clear and quite accurate. The NASB is accurate but not as clear. One negative of the NIV is since it is a new translation from the orignial hebrew and greek into 20th century english, it looses some of it's ability for the reader to visualize expression, emotion, figures of speach, details of the language. But still, with the NIV (and I highly recommend it), you can tell the differences between the different styles of the human authors of the Bible although it is not as eloquent and expressive as say the NKJV.

However, the beauty and poetry of the Bible is lost in the NWT as well as the different styles of the writers. It's to me like there is only one human author Genesis to the maps. This alone makes reading the NWT a real chore, very boring.

I think the awkward style and poor word choices used in the NWT are actually on purpose to discourage JWs from really digging into the word.

Now, getting this thread back on track, I'm doing a study of the book of Philippians. I don't have the exact count handy, but ther are about 25 refrences to Jehovah in Philippians, and I think 52 refrences to Jesus, a 2 to 1 ratio. The book starts out in vs. 1: Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus That's what I do personally, I serve the Lord Jesus because that is what the Bible teaches.

You men are amazing to me. I don't know how you were able to remove yourselves from this organization and keep your sense of humor and balance.

Tom

thomas15

Narkissos, exactly right my friend, well said.

Jesus said wherever two or more are gathered in my name, I'm there in the midst of them. If you and your brother are gathered in Jesus name in Europe and my brother and I are gathered together in Jesus name in Pennsylvania, both at the same exact time, how can Jesus be in the midst of both of us unless he is God in the flesh?

Simple, because through him all things were created that were created.

Have a great day.

Tom

JimmyPage

Thomas, thank you for praying for me. I honestly believe it's helping! And yes, I do try to keep a sense of humor about the whole sad situation. I hope no one takes too much offense at it, it's a defense mechanism.

yadda yadda 2

Good thread. Ray Franz's books opened my eyes too to this, as well as various websites. Now I wonder why I never saw it more clearly when I was a JW.

poppers

Did you notice on that other thread that Reniaa called Christians "Jesus worshippers"? I mean, how far removed from Christianity does the WTS make people that they use terms like that as pejoratives?

LOL! It would seem that to be true "Christians" one must openly deny the divinity of Christ. I never could understand why JWs refer to themselves as "Christians" when they deny him. What's the point of it, why not just refer to yourself as a Jehovite or some such term that doesn't mislead other people? But I guess that's the whole point, to mislead people, even themselves.

Colton

For people like Reniaa, Jesus simply DID NOT DO ENOUGH. His ransom sacrifice was in vain and salvation must be done through works. While Jehovah's Witnesses strive to have a direct relationship with the Father they completely side-step Jesus. It is so much more than just giving Him lip-service to say he is "Son of God". Even the demons recognized Jesus as "Son of God":

Matthew 8:28-29 (NIV) When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. "What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?"

Mark 1:24 (NIV) "What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are--the Holy One of God!"

Mark 3:11 (NIV) Whenever the evil spirits saw him, they fell down before him and cried out, "You are the Son of God."

Mark 5:7 (NIV) He shouted at the top of his voice, "What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? Swear to God that you won't torture me!"

Luke 4:34 (NIV) "Ha! What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are--the Holy One of God!"

Luke 4:41 (NIV) Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, "You are the Son of God!" But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ.

Luke 8:28 (NIV) When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, "What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don't torture me!"

Satan and his demons didn't worship Jesus ... neither do Jehovah's Witnesses.

yknot

This discussion reminds me of a CO's statement during FS when I was 9 year olds. He said the NT was primarily written for the anointed.

I personally still don't feel comfortable with the NIV (though my kids use the Adventure edition)...... I am reading my way through the YLT.

How different the WTS might have been if it had listened to the other Franz.

Most of us were on a similar "treadmill" as Ray and also "had never been able to do such serious, detailed research into the Scriptures, in fact never felt great need to do so since it was assumed that others were doing it for me" (CoC)

thomas15

yknot,

May I ask you why you are not comfortable with the NIV? Is it because the WT has much negative things to say about it and you are having a hard time putting that behind you?

One of the reasons I ask is because the YLT is very hard to understand.

yadda yadda 2

Poppers, although JW's don't emphasis Jesus enough compared to the emphasis on him in the NT, JW's do not technically deny Jesus' divinity (depending how we interpret that word); they just deny his divinity in the trinitarian sense. Their publications state he is a divine God/being.

And it's a bit harsh to say they "deny" Jesus. Depends what you mean by "deny" I suppose. I think it's fairer to say they diminish or water-down his role and importance in salvation by their doctrines that Christ's mediatorship and the new covenant only apply to the 144k.

passwordprotected

@ yadda - they deny Jesus by saying he's the mediator only for the 144,000, they deny Jesus by saying he died only for the 144,000 and they deny Jesus by refusing his sacrifice at their memorial. Jesus came to give us life; JWs refuse the very thing Jesus came to offer by saying his sojourn on earth was only for 144,000 people.

It sounds harsh, but from a Christian perspective JWs do indeed deny Jesus.

The emphasis is on Jesus, even in the New World Translation

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