When he first started posting, I questioned him. I don't like sounding bad here but something's rotten in Denmark. And just because someone calls you or you have their number, it doesn't prove much. The questions this guy asks are specific ones regarding who has knowledge of the inner workings of the Organization.
Do you want your publisher cards? Do you need a congregation "secretary" to request them? I can do it
by BonaFide 59 Replies latest jw friends
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BonaFide
Here I am worried someone on here will OUT ME, and some on here think I will OUT THEM?
BF
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Tuesday
Yeah I've been out for years, I was never baptized. The only risk I have is getting my last name out to youtube crazies who have threatened to kill me. So yeah I'll bite, you've got a PM. I'm interested to see what is mentioned on my card anyway.
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BurnTheShips
That is a very generous offer on your part, BonaFide. Unfortunately, most people won't feel comfortable sharing personal info with someone they only know on the Internet.
BTS
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BonaFide
Whatever Minimus. If anyone doesn't believe me, they don't have to. I don't trust everyone on here myself.
BF
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AllTimeJeff
Bona Fide,
While I was trying to be tactful (and perhaps naive) the minute I saw this, I was concerned. I saw you posted this a couple of months ago, so I missed it initially....
At the outset, let me say that the internet is a scary thing for both JW's and ex JW's... I with great reluctance gave more information then I feel comfortable with on other websites related to JW's.
I have reviewed the topics you started, and I do have some questions. You don't have to answer them, as you don't answer to me, but it is curious....
How did you go from "What Should I do at elders meeting with me?" and "Judicial Committee formed, can they do that with only one witness?" to "My Experience with the Bethel Legal Dept regarding a Minsiterial Servant molesting a boy" and this amazing one, "Judicial Committees I have served on as an elder and CO"
So let me get this straight, you come on this board with your MTS training and experience as a CO, and you don't know that technically they can't form a JC with just one witness? You ask us what to do with the elders at your meeting?
Having read this, I can appreciate why Minimus and Outlaw have said what they have said. If you are/were an MTS trained CO/missionary, you sure as hell should have known the answers to your own questions. That should be a no brainer to you.
Now you want very personal information from (unsuspecting) members of this board?
Really, I don't care what you answer, because maybe there is a perfectly legit reason for this. But the more I think about it, there is no doubt that you are or were an elder, you know too much. For you to ask complete strangers for cards is really bad. Just really bad judgment on your part at best. And at worst? You aren't who you say you are....
I would certainly ask anyone interested in Bona Fides offer to NOT do it, regardless of what you think about my observations or this thread in general. There are enough red flags here to be very worried. If you don't believe me, just read his own threads....
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SnakesInTheTower
Bonafide...
your idea would neverhave worked with me as secretary. I was always on the alert for something just like this...call me paranoid, but I am experienced in the field of skip tracing and collections.... I used to use that and many other methods to get information from people all the time when trying to catch up with a deadbeat...I mean "debtor". It is amazing how many people you can call and start asking questions about their coworkers, friends, neighbors, relatives, ex-wives etc and they answer...all too eager to share the dirt.
When I was a congregation secretary, if I had a request to transfer a card and send a letter, I covered my backside. The Society usually does not get involved in general publisher transfers unless they are pioneer, elder, MS,etc. OR if there are "complications."
If I received a phone call or a letter from a secretary, and I did not know the secretary personally, I immediately called Bethel and verified that the secretary name, address, congo info, etc was what they had on file. I also got the PO info and called him if I had any question about the request. The phone call to Service took all of a minute or two. Anyone can call Bethel and ask for that information. Tell them you are moving into the territory and need the PO and secretary info. Or tell them you are verifying contact info for a transfer of cards. They appreciate that little extra check. MOST secretaries do not do that.
After I typed up the letter of introduction to the new congo, I had the PO and Service Overseer look it over, make recommended changes, and sign the final copy. Covered my butt. I hear this is now the official procedure...no more secretaries going off the reservation sending their own opinions in a letter (as happened to me when I moved).
I would highly not advise the course of action that Bonafide is offering....it has B A D I D E A written all over it...I take BF at face value until proven otherwise. I am pretty certain he and I have met in the past. Whether or not BF is legit or troll has absolutelynothing to do with it folks... and if you are going to do something foolish like this... set up a post office box for 6 months wherever you want the card/letter to go...send a nice basic letter requesting the card and letter....and have it sent to YOUR PO BOX. The letter is horribly easy to write. (Let the postmaster know they might get a letter with that "secretary" name on it so they dont return it.) This only works if the town you are sending it to is NOT in the same circuit or district or even metropolitan area.
And in any case, you are taking a chance. Better to just send a DA letter...LOL
Snakes ()
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Finally-Free
I DA'd, so I've no use for my card. It would be interesting to see the hours for my last 4 months of "service" though. I reported all zeros for those months, and I'd be interested to see if they fudged the numbers to boost the congregation statistics.
W
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BonaFide
AllTimeJeff, glad you read my posts.
I said on there that when I was a C.O, I sometimes pushed the envelope when I thought a person was guilty. When a person denied a sin, and there was a witness to it, such as a member of the opposite sex who said that he fornicated with her, I would sort of pretend there was another witness to the sin to try and get him to confess. I would imply someone had seen him go into her house, or that he had told someone.
Or sometimes I would dismiss the brother first, talk to the sister, and then when he came back into the room, I would dismiss the sister. I would then tell him that THE SISTER CONFESSED, SO WHY WOULD SHE LIE?
So when I WAS ON THE HOTSEAT, I wondered, "Will the elders do that with me? Will they try to say there is a second witness to my "sin?." I wondered what the brothers on here who have experience would say. One thing I used to do is to use THREE ELDERS to meet with a brother or sister in some circumstances, THEN IF IT TURNED JUDICIAL, WHICH WE THOUGHT IT MIGHT, we had our committee. The Branch allowed that, even though in the Flock book it is two elders that form the investigative committee.
Those of us that have actually served on committee's have seen some weird things. So when the tables were turned on me, and I WAS NERVOUS ABOUT BEING DISFELLOWSHIPPED, I wondered what procedures HAVE YOU SEEN in these circumstances? What is YOUR EXPERIENCE when there is only ONE WITNESS to a sin?
If you guys don't believe me that's no skin off my back. Even when I was a C.O. and a missionary, some of the friends used to say to me, "You know Bonafide, I just can't believe you are a C.O., you are just too OUT THERE."
Ride on, people.
BF
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BonaFide
As far as the Publisher Card thing is concerned, I can see why some might not want to do that. I guess since I sincerely wanted to help, I didn't think that it could come across as trying to get people's personal information.
When you are raised a Witness, you are raised with other Witnesses believing what you say. I think I should start another topic on that....
BF