Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 04-26-09 WT Study (PRAYERS)

by blondie 18 Replies latest jw friends

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  blondie

  I'm surprised that he sacrificed eating with the family to insist on giving a public prayer (but then some like to feel "persecuted"). He could say a silent, short, private prayer. He might feel that he cannot participate in a prayer given by someone else at the table. I grew up in a family where my father was not a jw. No public prayers at our table...but we did pray privately but not with a big show of it. I have known of men who were jws and their wives were not who did not force a family prayer on the others. Prayer officially among jws it not supposed to be a means of "witnessing" to non-jw family members, after all God knows all that stuff.

  Blondie
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  Pistoff

  It is interesting to me now how important prayer before a meal is to witnesses; why is it so important?

  Dinnertime in my home growing up was very good up until I was maybe 11; after that it was tense, with battles between my father and mother playing out openly or under the surface. Still, my mother always prepared very good meals, mealtime was important. But I can't remember my father, not a witness, ever saying a prayer and if it was it the "God is great, God is good..." type. With my own family it was important to me that suppertime be easy going, friendly and not confrontational.

  I believe now that it is comforting ritual for witnesses as it is for most others, even though we don't think we have rituals.

  The account of Daniel insisting on prayer openly is one of the things that made me question Daniel, along with wondering where was Daniel when the 3 Hebrews were being tested? Why did he not use his influence to prevent the punishment? We are among the very few groups that think Daniel is a true story; all serious scholars say it was written in the 165 BCE range as an apocalyptic to reinforce Jewish identity during the Maccabean revolt against the Seleucids.
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  Tired of the Hypocrisy

  "What kind of prayer do jw's say before dinner?"

  My wife's dad has always been one for lengthy prayers. More so at family gatherings and jw assemblies. I can recall about 10 years ago, we had a BBQ at our place and he came with about 25 members of their family. Since dad was the elder statesman in attendance I asked him to offer the prayer. You should have heard the moans and whines. LOL His youngest brother said out loud that it was a mistake to let him pray because the fire would go out and the flies would have laid eggs in all our food before he was done....
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  LUKEWARM

  Thanks for this Blondie - your comments never disappoint!!!
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  OnTheWayOut

  This is the study article that went with the "Special" talk. It just seems so fake to focus on the Lord's Prayer and ask the members why it's okay to ask for the things in that prayer and show the visitors what a "normal" religion this is to "follow Jesus' example."

  They don't do that, they don't say the things in the Lord's Prayer.
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  marcopolo

  Blondie yr commend are very nice. welcome

  hugs
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  WTWizard

  What a waste of time. You pray for Jehovah's name be sanctified, His tyranny come, and His nefarious will be done. Now, all these things are for Jehovah. Who thinks I am so stupid that I think Jehovah is waiting for me to ask Him to do His will? One is wasting their time praying for these things, since Jehovah Himself would lose out by not answering them.

  The other items are for personal needs. Notice that, one must keep on asking (in other words, keep trying the same thing when it doesn't work, and hope for a random good outcome). Also, one must "work towards" what is prayed for, which is very often all that needs be done anyways. Again, praying is a complete waste of one's time.

  I can think of a very quick way to wrap up the whole a$$embly. Open up with the three words that are going to constitute the whole thing: The Bible lies.
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  Alligator Wisdom

  For you brothers out there, how about representing the group by praying like this before a meal at a congregation gathering?

  "Good bread, good meat, good Lord, Let's Eat!!"

  Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously)
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  jgnat

  I found your thread, finally! After many months of reprieve, I "helped" hubby with this article. Since I was committed to endure it, I took the time to prepare my own comments as well. My JW hubby is not at all confident in his prayers. It is as if he is uncertain if they will be received, and fears he might not be doing it "right". As I come from an evangelical background, I am willing to pray at the drop of a hat (privately more often than not) and ask my heavenly father for help right there. I have an easy relationship, so the prayers are easy.

  Here are my notes:

  Paragraphs 3 and 11, I noted they used "Never Pray" instead of "Do not Pray". The article suggests there are unacceptable prayers. An admonition is changed to a taboo. No wonder JW's are all hung up on doing it right. From my perspective, the society puts walls between the congregants and God. Will He be pleased?

  Para 6. "Jehovah would not answer their hypocritical prayers." As Blondie points out, from the JW perspective this would include anyone who is not a JW, including me. From their perspective, then, shall I dismiss all the miracles, big and small, that I have credited to God over the years? From my perspective, also, many prayers from the stage fit the hypocritical mold. The words are to impress men, not God.

  Para. 7, 11, 18. The article equivocates and goes beyond what is written. Elders prayers at times ARE pompous. In para. 11, note the "privelege" that is attached to public prayer. I think I will make it a habit to always take the opportunity to thank a brother for his public prayer, so that he can get his "reward in full."

  Para. 9. "Many unnecessary words"....like, "Jehovah God" or "Through your son Jesus"? The witnesses are one of the worst offenders!

  Para. 12. I would like to find other commentary to broaden the JW interpretation of "blessed be your name". I am certain Jehovah God is more interested in being represented well, than a parroting of the "J" word from door to door.

  Here's John Wesley's commentary on the same verse: hallowed be thy name— Mayest thou, O Father, he truly known by all intelligent beings, and with affections suitable to that knowledge: mayest thou be duly honoured, loved, feared, by all in heaven and in earth, by all angels and all men. 2.

  B. W. Johnson: Hallowed be thy name. Of the seven petitions of the Lord's prayer the first three are in behalf of the cause of God; the glory of his name, the extension of his kingdom, and the prevalence of his will. The other four, which are properly placed last, as least important, pertain to our individual needs. No one can offer the first three petitions who is in disobedience. Hallowed. Holy, sacred, reverenced

  Another, rich interpretation: http://livinghour.org/blog/lords_prayer/hallowed-be-thy-name/

  Para. 12. Does Jehovah sanctify or do we by reputation? Is He not already pure and true? Jehovah God has no need to prove himself.

  Para. 13. I'd like to find commentary on "Thy Kingdom Come" as well, but not today.

  Para. 15. God hears our prayers except for hypocrits, worldly people, and opposers of course (said tongue in cheek). Where does the concept of forgiveness come in to the JW perception of others and their answered prayers?

  Para. 21, 22. Tells the reader how they should feel.

  Para. 19, 20. Or the corollory, if a loving father wouldn't require it of you, why would God?