If my wife is still studying with the JWs come the time of this issue, I may really have some interesting questions for her as I just happen to pick it up and read it......
Watchtower July 15th - womanly submission issue scan
by dozy 56 Replies latest watchtower bible
-
-
AllTimeJeff
I love how they always say Eve didn't show respect for headship..... because she decided to eat a piece of fruit!
Where does the bible censure Eve for not submitting to Adam's headship? More crap from the GB. Here's the underlying message "Hey JW sisters. Remember, Eve (women) put us in this mess. If only she had asked Adam, none of this would have happened. See, you can mess things up too by not checking in with your man...."
More creeds by "implication" from the governing body...
-
llbh
Hi Snowbird, good to see you too, not been around much, as i have been very busy, mostly good. .
This issue of womanly submission gets me very annoyed for so many reasons. Any empirical examination of it on any but the most rudimentary level exposes its total vacuousness, and worse, much worse its attempt - far too often successful - to control another human being because they happen by virtue of their birth, to be female. The most successful societies are those that do NOT discriminate by virtue of race, gender, sexual orientation, and education.
I will have often challenged the perception of people on these issues and i have always been able to demonstrate the paucity of their argument and that it is so counterproductive. They seem to hold these views almost reflexively, without thinking, as it is their right, when challenged they usually think about their views.
Regards David
-
MissingLink
dozy said:
JW wives never to:
Contradict husband in front of children. If she disagrees with him , to discuss it in private.
Give any permission to a child where parental authority is required before child discusses with her husband.
If family is thinking of moving or husband (of course) changing his job , it would be "beneficial & kind" that husband considers his wifes views so that he can arrive at balanced , more considerate decision that she can support.
That itself actually sounds pretty spot on. The only thing is - these things should go both ways. The father should also not contractic the mother in front of the children, etc..
Mom and Dad should be equals, but working together.
-
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
With the Watchtower adoration for the OT, I'm surprised they call the wife "she" instead of "it."
*** it-1 p. 640 Divorce ***
Among the Israelites a man customarily paid a dowry for the woman who became his wife, and she was considered his possession. While enjoying many blessings and privileges, hers was the subordinate role in the marital union. Her position is further shown by Deuteronomy 24:1-4, which pointed out that the husband might divorce his wife but said nothing about the wife’s divorcing her husband. Being considered his property, she could not divorce him.How loving of Hojovah to "bless" females as property of almost greater value than a camel. Wow, that Y chromosome makes all the difference in the eyes of God.
Sadly, the dubs are trapped in the stone age.
B the X
-
snowbird
Hi again, David.
I echo your sentiments.
That's what irks me so much about racial discrimination.
NO one should make another feel less important. NO ONE.
Sylvia
-
llbh
I hear you there Sylvia knowing a little of your background.
One of my best friends is gay , he was brought up a in JW household, i guessed his sexual orientation before he did almost, he was quite conflicted about it. He is a wonderful friend who happens to be gay.
Why oh why does it matter at all about skin colour, gender or sexuality ?
We have come a long way in the west in a short time in the West, and as with the election of Obama in the US it is clearly shown how we can all be enriched. His wife is a good example too imo. it should so not be an issue at all.
This is where the USA is showing how society can work for the good of all its people.
This reminds me of Rosa Parks, what a brave lady
The wts and its ilk are dinosaurs on this issue like so many other groups.
Regards David
-
snowbird
This reminds me of Rosa Parks, what a brave lady
Yes, indeed.
Sylvia
-
besty
for my 0.02 I think they like this headship malarkey more for its extension to how the BOE and the FDS GB should be accorded unquestioning obedience - its all part of the headship principle - which in itself is a loaded language term - I mean where else have you heard those 2 words? oh ye - nowhere.
-
ziddina
"Among the Israelites a man customarily paid a dowry for the woman who became his wife, and she was considered his possession. While enjoying many blessings and privileges, hers was the subordinate role in the marital union. Her position is further shown by Deuteronomy 24:1-4, which pointed out that the husband might divorce his wife but said nothing about the wife’s divorcing her husband. Being considered his property, she could not divorce him.
How loving of Hojovah to "bless" females as property of almost greater value than a camel. Wow, that Y chromosome makes all the difference in the eyes of God.
Sadly, the dubs are trapped in the stone age."
Right on, Billy X! What gets me is the total inability of JWs (or, for that matter, anyone following the Christian faith...) who CANNOT see that this behavior is EXACTLY the same as that of a fundamentalist Muslim Arab man in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan!!
My ancestry wasn't Middle Eastern, and I won't worship a god that is!! Nor obey that sort of Middle-Eastern-god's edicts based on Middle Eastern men's attitudes towards their women!
Personally, [this is going to sound weird at first, so wait for it...] I'm GLAD that Muslim countries hobble and handicap their women! This means that Middle Eastern countries won't ever have:
A woman like Hedi Lamarr who came up with variable frequency transmissions, helping the Allies defeat the Germans during WWII... - and, incidentally, laying the foundation for our present cell phone technology...!!
Women like all those "Rosie the Riveters" who picked up the jobs in the arms and munitions factories when the men went off to war - this, by the way, is one of the reasons the '50's had such repressive attitudes towards women - after the war ended, the returning soldiers didn't want to compete with women for the factory jobs, so an atmosphere arose in which women were to be submissive little home-makers, producing children and sitting at home waiting for Daddy's paycheck, instead of competing with him in the factories for that same paycheck.
A woman like Madame Curie, whose discovery has had a HUGE effect on medicine, allowing doctors to take an accurate look inside the human body without destroying it in the process...
A woman like Queen Elizabeth the First, whose rule established many precedents that helped keep England stable and productive for hundreds of years (I'm not discounting the wars; I'm saying she established systems...)
A woman like Faye Glenn Abdellah, whose development of the first tested coronary care unit has saved thousands of lives....
For more women who have added greatly to our lives in Western nations and the non-fundamentalist Muslim nations, here is a website: http://www.greatwomen.org/home.php
If you have the chance for a brief review of these women, think about the fact that any religion that reduces the very productive female half of the species to the level of 'property' would have deprived you of these womens' advances, and future advances to be made by ourselves, our daughters, our granddaughters...
A horrific loss for humanity! But that is what the fundamentalist Muslim nations have done to themselves... As well as the WTBTS and any other organization that views women as 'second-class' citizens or, worse yet, 'property'...
May they be hoist by their own petard!! Zid
