I think she cried herself to sleep

by OnTheWayOut 15 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  OnTheWayOut

  I had a thread on JWS about a discussion with my mother:
  http://www.jwsupportforum.com/index.php?topic=5675.0
  
  Basically, I will cover it again here in my most recent JW-related discussion with my wife.
  
  I finally found it necessary to say more to my wife about why I have been in a foul mood whenever JW stuff comes up, lately.
  
  She's been asking me to drive her to JW stuff when she's tired and has a rough day. I dropper her off at a KH the week before and dropped her off at another JW's home shortly thereafter. I had to lightly deal with the JW's when I picked her up each time.
  
  She asked me to go to dinner with her and drop her off at her regular meeting, then pick her up 2 hours later. This is the hall where everybody knows me, my records are there. I told her I didn't want to do it. I wasn't in the mood to face such people. She tried to make it an issue of "Don't you want to spend time with me?" It wasn't that part I had a problem with, and I told her so. "It's what happens after I spend time with you that I have a problem with." I really wasn't able to tell her I didn't want to go near the hall where everybody knows me and will come out to the car and say "We miss you." She should have figured that out, but didn't.
  
  Anyway, she noticed I was in a foul mood about JW stuff, more than usual. A few days passed. Something happened that made me tell her something about my foul mood.
  
  We ended our Saturday and went to bed. Mrs. OTWO was sharing her day with me before going to sleep. It started out with her trying to share some silly moment at the KH with me.
  
  Mrs. OTWO: So Brother XXXX had hurt himself, he was limping in the hall. Well, there was this problem on the platform and he comes running/limping up there and practically trips over the microphone....YADDA YADDA YADDA. (She tells the whole story as if it's just a friendly funny-thing-happened-today-at-work story, forgetting that it's a Kingdom Hall story that I would have no interest in. Still, we still enjoy telling each other about our day, so I listened.)
  
  OTWO: Thanks for sharing your day. Let me tell you what's been bugging me lately. It particularly has to do with asking me to keep crossing paths with the Witnesses. A year and a half ago, my mother said she would never shun me, no matter what. So about a month ago, she said that they had studied some article at the meeting, and she wanted to be sure that I don't DA ever. She said that the article said she would have to stop speaking to me. I asked her "Wouldn't you decide on your own with your mind instead of following some article?" She said "The article was pretty clear, so I would have to stop speaking to you. So just don't disassociate."

  (I told my wife the part about how my mother had talked to one of her elders who broke confidentiality. One of the elders where I resigned as an elder had since, temporarily moved to my mother's congregation, and Mom asked him if I had written any letter of DA. He said that I had written a pretty harsh letter- I had to tell Mom that it wasn't a DA letter, just an elder resignation letter two-and-a-half years ago. That elder has since moved to Africa. Anyway, I told Mrs. OTWO that the elder should have said 'Talk to your son' when asked a confidential question.)

  OTWO: If I saw [that elder], I might punch him in the mouth."

  Mrs. OTWO: You are not violent. That's not like you.

  OTWO: So Mrs. OTWO, my problem right now with Witness stuff is that I see my own mother just turning her brain off, not making thoughts for herself. It makes me mad when I think about it, and that's part of why I didn't want to drop you off at the hall the other day and hear the fake "We miss you" comments from "the friends."
  
  It was all too much for Mrs. OTWO. My comment was met with silence. I think she cried herself to sleep.
  
  Another odd thing, though. Next morning, she never mentioned it and was her usual pleasant self. Part of that is that it was Sunday, and she probably didn't want to go out in field circus, so she wanted to spend the day with me, then say that OTWO had kept her away from the activity. So, anyway- I got her to go with me later to see the new X-Men movie and then sneak into the next screen to see the new Star Trek movie. That's something she never would have done as a very deep JW, stealing a viewing of a movie. That's the only reason I do such stuff. (Okay, and it saves nearly $20.)
• 

  cognac

  I feel sorry for her OTWO... That must have broke your heart that she felt so much pain. I'm sorry.

  DH does that to me a ton - use me as an excuse not to do JW stuff. As time goes by, he does less and less JW stuff...
• 

  BabaYaga

  Well seriously, On the Way... it does sound like you had a lovely time together afterwards... and the story contained in your post does indeed have a hopeful ending.

  Here's to hope.

  Love,
  Baba.
• 

  flipper

  OTWO- Sorry you had to deal with the vascillating emotions of your JW wife and mom. Unfortunately it comes with having relatives still under the influence of cult mind control. I deal with that as well with my witness relatives. You and I both know that if your mom had total control of her authentic personality she never would have stated to you that she would HAVE to shun you because of instructions by the WT society. But the reality is - your mom is NOT in total control of her authentic personality - the WT society controls her personality and how she views her world, herself and you her son. These witnesses are programmed like robots - emotion isn't involved - it's about " obedience " to the cult authority. Just be glad you AREN"T dissassociated so your mom will still associate with you. I understand- it's how I have to roll also- or my witness parents would shun me too. Sucks- but we do what we have to do.

  As regards to your wife - I'm glad she was more herself the next day and you guys had a good day together. I think we've talked about this before , but I can't emphasize enough how important it is to involve witness spouses in real, fun, authentic, non-witness hobbies and activities so more of their real personality comes out - and not the cult personality. And you are doing a great job of it in my opinion. Keep it up. Hang in there
• 

  Snoozy

  So sorry you have to go through that. I had enough of that hurt when my JW hubby was alive but I still loved him and it did hurt me to hurt him by not going with him. It's awful that THEY put you in that position. I say THEY because it is them. They call the shots..they make the rules..their followers have blinders on and cannot see how much they are being munipulated. The pain that THEY have is of their own making..ours is not. We should not have to go through that just because we no longer follow their leader...

  I have no other suggestions but I would say to follow your conscience..do things to make up for the pain..try to be with her when possible but I wouldn't fall for the tricks of "If you wanted to be with me you would go to the meetings " believe it or not they do get coaching for those little tricks..they pull on your strings......best of luck to you.

  ps..I just noticed your wife and your Mom are JW's..I had my JW hubby and all his family were JW's when I left..so I know what you are going through. The only difference is that his family lived in a small country town and the rules seemed to be a lot more lax..even though I had actually wrote a DA letter years later they told my JW MIL that it was OK to associate with me but to not talk about religion with me..(It didn't stop her from telling me I would be destroyed if I didn't come back) even going so far as to saying a prayer in front of me when we all ate..even the JW friends that same over to eat with us..and yes they were all aware of my status...just shows how different things are in different congregations.
• 

  carla

  Would she be hauling your butt around to drop you at 'apostatafests'? That's what I don't get, jw's expect people to do what they will not and can't understand why people get cranky about it every once and awhile. Your a better man than I that's for sure! (even accounting for the fact I don't possess necessary equipment) I won't even let one vehicle turn into a 'dubmobile'. I was really upset he wanted to take my car one day for jw stuff and used that word too, 'dubmobile', I think he found it amusing so he took his usual vehicle instead. I threatened to paint crosses and American flags on the hood if I had to. I would too, but he was chuckling about the dubmobile comment so extreme measures were not needed. It's not as bad as it sounds, all was in jest but knowing we were both serious at the same time. All's well that ends well, I now have jw free car and free from looking like some sort of religious patriotic nut, see? we all win here!
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Cognac, thanks for your empathy from a similar viewpoint. Strength to us.

  BabaYaga- Yes, it was a good day, the next day. Here's to hope. [CLINK]

  Flipper, I take vacations with the MRS. and go to the zoo and museums with her. I do bunches of stuff with her.
  If it weren't for her busy JW schedule, I bet we would learn to be gourmets together instead of eating on the run.

  Snoozy, one good thing is that she has not asked me to "be at the meetings." She just wants me to be there for her outside of the meetings.
  She hopes I will drop her off and spend time at the library or shopping while she is at the meeting. She can drive herself, but she prefers being with me. We have two cars but never meet someplace other than home. She wants to spend time together, including the ride to/from home. I have told her that as much as I enjoy such time, I am not a "JW-friends" backup.
  What I mean is that she loves the social club of the congregation, but when they fail her, she wants to have me as backup for dinner after the weekend meeting or me as backup for weekend plans when she cancels service. I am all for doing things together, but I cannot wait for her to cancel plans and just sit at home until she does. I have made great friends on JWN, JWS, meetup- I do stuff and plan ahead of time. If she doesn't cancel JW plans, she might be gone all day on Saturday or Sunday, or both.

  I hate to say it, but I hope the JW's fail her again and again as a social club, and I hope she cancels JW stuff more often, and I will do things with her as often as I can, but I also show her that her outside life doesn't just sit and wait for her. She has to snatch at it.
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  Carla, thanks for your inspiration. We have a car situation. I do let her use one vehicle as she finds necessary. The problem is that we switch cars often. One is great on gas and one is bigger. One is better in the snow and I don't go as far to work as her, YADDA YADDA.

  The problem comes in when I ask her to move stuff out of the one car. She leaves all kinds of WT literature in the storage spaces, stating it's not in the way. I typically pile it on the porch. I think she would have figured that I am tempted to pile it in the garbage (some of the mags and flyers do go there) but she hasn't figured it out yet.

  I suppose it's an anger issue, I will have to address it sooner or later.
• 

  carla

  Oh, see, I won't allow any jw lit to hang about anywhere either. Well that's not entirely true, he can leave it around but then I will leave apostate stuff out (they really don't like to see the book, 'JW's & Mental Illness', not too crazy about seeing C of C either) and find the most disgusting news story about jw's and leave it out too (jw father murders family, you get the idea) so he never leaves anything out at all anymore. The kids wanted to burn it and leave the ashes in the sink but I wouldn't let them. I did allow them to place a jw book neatly on top of the garbage in the bathroom though. He no longer leaves it out on the bathroom counter either. We now have a strict seperation of all things jw and marriage & family. I (and kids) don't want to see or hear about jw's and he doesn't like to hear the horror stories from the boards or see apostate lit so..... there you go, not perfect but a truce of sorts and it keeps the peace for now.
• 

  undercover

  Jerry, I have no words of advice or comfort. But I wanted to let you know I read this and understand as I'm in a similar situation.

  I hope that sharing this with us has helped a little. I do know that sometimes it's good to just get things off your chest and sometimes this is just the place. So many here know and understand.