The Case for God (page 9)

middleman

"But please don't be so hasty as to deny things which you know are at least a consensus position without at least a modicum of backup."

To be honest with you, a "consensus position" doesn't really say much to me. There are many of those that are ever changing within many fields of science, as they should be. New data comes in, therefore new theories arise as old ones are abandoned. Relating back to the various dating methods, that consensus is ever changing too, dates/ages that scientists constantly have to change.

"It is also false that science is "silent" on the matter of god."

Really?....science can prove/disprove the existence of God? That is within the scientific method, sure test him then "box it up"...what's the verdict?

11. The claim that "religious" experiences are supernatural (At least some have full natural explanations)

Does your use of the word some imply that there are other supernatural experiences that are not backed by science, but nevertheless observable? If yes then I agree. If that's not what you are saying, then shouldn't you change some to all?

"Science does not really have arguments, it has experiements (usually)."

I'm half with you on this one....there's a lot of debate on who's theory (insert here) is more correct than others. With all of the different data collected for a particular experiment,the conclusion at times is still based on the theory/belief of the individual. If this is not the case, then we wouldn't have differing ideas within a particular field of science-that is if the data says only ONE thing and can be interpreted only as such.

middleman

I think I'm done for now hehe. These discussions usually never go anywhere haha....but they're fun. Can I get religious for a second here? It is my prayer that the God doubters/haters etc really seek with all of your heart IF God is real and IF he actually has a plan for your life and IF he cares about you. I was "on a tear" for the first 18 years of my life and my mom always thought I was going to die or end up in prison. God got a hold of my heart and changed it inside out. Can I prove that to you?...no. Can I prove the thoughts inside of my head?....my dreams, ambitions....no. They are just as real to me as God is and as personal to ME, more than anything in my life that I can touch, see, smell etc. I'm crazy right?....well sure I am, guilty as charged. Until you have that personal experience, then I really don't blame you for doubting as I did for 18 years. God protects us in ways we don't even know...even from ourselves and our own intellect...after all, mere knowledge "puffeth up". Maybe I'll make a thread about some of my "supernatural" experiences so y'all can shred them apart and intellectualize them away haha or call me delusional haha. BRING IT ON FAT BOY LOL. Get the meds...junior is out.

No really, it is my sincere desire that your heart keeps seeking, asking, testing, looking for the truth to all of this, the "blue carousel" and it's strange quarter horses, ya earth. What's the purpose of life...is there one...do we care, does it matter etc. So many people like to say "truth is relative", but isn't that an absolute statement? Can ya see the irony? Anyways, there's so much that I can "rant" about here (I'm not mad just passionate) but there's work to do. I'll be posting that "supernatural" essay later. That boy has seen angels, demons, UFO's, miracles...get the white jacket and throw away the key to his rubber room lol.

Blessings...

Spook

Middleman - You are well within your right to assert whatever you want about subjects I have a degree of expertise in and not provide any substantiation. It seems we are also talking past each other since none of my clarifications appear to have clarified anything. I don't think you're crazy or dishonest, just mistaken - and perhaps wired up to have different belief processes.

If anyone else on this thread wants a detailed discussion of any one the half dozen or so arguments presented in the OP, we may want a new thread.

middleman

"You are well within your right to assert whatever you want about subjects I have a degree of expertise in and not provide any substantiation."

That's great that you do...I'm sure I can learn a lot from you. I would like to hear more about it, I do mean that in all sincerity. However, there are others that have more expertise than you (certainly more than me lol), getting different results/ideas/beliefs in the process, but that's ok. Once again...it's all all how read the data my friend.

"I don't think you're crazy or dishonest, just mistaken - and perhaps wired up to have different belief processes."

Touche', that's exactly how I feel...I'm glad you brought that up. We can agree to disagree here.

donny

As an agnostic I can see the issue without being extreme to one side or the other. Is there is a creator or whatever that set everything we see around us in motion? Possibly. But that not not mean this powerful being is the same one described in the Middle Eastern scriptures. To me, a being that has that intelligence and ability, is a far higher being than the vengeful, multiple-personality being mentioned in those texts.

Don

UnDisfellowshipped

Spook said:

"If anyone else on this thread wants a detailed discussion of any one the half dozen or so arguments presented in the OP, we may want a new thread."

I am taking that very wise advice, and starting individual threads for each topic, starting with the "Moral Argument", and this "Moral Argument" thread is located at:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/175688/1/God-Morals-and-Atheists

UnDisfellowshipped

Spook said:

"Your claim that science is "silent" on the matter [of whether God exists] is clearly false."

Science points to a beginning of the Universe, but science cannot describe what caused the Universe to come into existence.

Science (according to evolution) points to life developing gradually over time, but science cannot describe how life could come into existence from non-life.

Has the scientific method ever disproved God, as He is described in the Bible? If not, then science truly is silent, at least when it comes to disproving God's existence.

Spook said:

"While there is no argument that should rationally convince one to accept theism from a neutral state"

Based on what? Have you heard every argument? And what exactly is a "neutral state"?

C.S. Lewis said that he had been a staunch Atheist, but then, because of rational arguments, he eventually became a Christian.

And how would you be able to make that claim since you are NOT in the "neutral state" yourself?

Homerovah the Almighty

Human ignorance existed therefore the gods had to exist as a explanation of the unknown,

on the other hand as human knowledge progresses the gods

have slowly disappeared one by one.

If there is one fear that mankind should adhere to is the fear of natural law something

that no one can deny they are not apart of.

UnDisfellowshipped

Homerovah,

Are you aware that there are billions of Theists in the world? How many Atheists are there? Are you saying all of the Theists are ignorant?

drwtsn32

Are you saying all of the Theists are ignorant?

Where did he say anything of the sort?

Mankind has an insatiable desire to find answers to questions about the world around us. Historically the tendency has been to attribute unknown phenomena to god(s) instead of just saying "we don't know." As science progresses and answers questions about the natural world, god is no longer needed to answer those questions.

In other words, god lives in the gaps of science. The gaps will continue to shrink as time progresses.

The Case for God

Share this