How many people did Jesus disfellowship? (page 2)

Albert Einstein

disfellowshiping is some cold crap that came in latter by nasty Paul...not very Christ-ian.

JWs usualy argument with what did Paul wrote ... but reading that, without keeping in mind WTBS doctrines, shows Paul was concerned about people, who really were an active threat to christians, actively causing problems etc... , even so... It was supposed to be a very extreme situation... .

Today, I know a number of people being DF just for not believing WTBS doctrines. Example: Good friend of me was recently DF for aproaching Jesus in prayer. He is a very spiritual and exemplary person, JW for over 20 years, long time pioneer, elder, really examplary husbend and father, and he was DF like any sort of a criminal, fornicatior, murderer .... All he did - was praying to Jesus - He just from the Bible learned there is nothing wrong about it, and privatly did so ... but somebody found out, dennounced him to the elders, and he got kicked out in one week!

If you read Pauls letters, what was happening in the congregations that time - If they were DFing, like WTBS does today, there would be no congregations at all in the first century at all!

Albert

Albert Einstein

But he in effect disfellowshipped the Pharisees by strongly condemning them to their faces, such as at Matthew 23. Also, he in effect disfellowshipped Judas Iscariot by sending him away from the last supper."

Sir, I dont buy this:

1) Jesus strongly condemned Pharisees, but made no arrangement limiting assosiacion with them for his followers. That was not DF as practised today by WTBS. At one point he condemned also Peter.... but that did not mean he was DF.

2) Judas was not DF by Jesus. At one moment Jesus let him go from the party, but it was not forbidden for others to talk to him.

Albert

passwordprotected

A die-hard JW might say "Of course disfellowshipping was not instituted into the Christian congregation until 30+ years after Jesus' time, so obviously Jesus did not disfellowship anyone. But he in effect disfellowshipped the Pharisees by strongly condemning them to their faces, such as at Matthew 23. Also, he in effect disfellowshipped Judas Iscariot by sending him away from the last supper."

Ok, so the follow-up question has to be;

Who did Jesus shun?

passwordprotected

Hobo Ken was DFd for privately telling an elder that he believed Jesus should be worshipped. Even when he showed the elders the WTBTS legal charter which states that Jesus is to be worshiped, plus the many scriptures to that effect, they actually raised their voices over his so that he couldn't get his point across.

All of this will be revealed in his Death or Obedience podcast (search iTunes).

VIII

I have used the WWJD arguement lately. It is effective. It is hard for a JW to say "Yes, Jesus would DF someone for drinking 3 glasses of wine at a party and seeming drunk on 2 separate occations." I have used that exact example.

edited to add: since alcoholism is considered a disease and needs treatment, the last thing a loving, christian person should be doing is cutting off a person who clearly needs help. Shunning them into submission is not going to make them stop drinking. As I pointed out to the person I used this example on. The person who got DFd for drinking was an alcoholic and needed help. He only got worse after being DFd. She agreed and said no, Jesus wouldn't shun them and wouldn't cut them off; he would try to help them and the dubs are wrong to DF people for this and for smoking. No matter how bad smoking is for you.

AllTimeJeff

This has long been a sticking point with me when I finally read the bible without a JW lens on....

Jesus, in actuality, associated with those whom the Scribes and Pharisees shunned.

The fornicating woman at the well? The sinful woman who cleaned Jesus feet with her hair? The woman who was "unclean" yet long to touch Jesus to be made well?

These accounts (I would say allegories to some... no offense) portray Jesus as someone merciful and inclusive. The only ones he was ever really angry at were the Pharisees for their shunning and haughtiness toward the famous amaharets.

Of course, even Paul gave specific acts for which one was to be excluded, (which did not include disagreeing with the GB, or any ruling body of men) but again, the harsh rigidity of "no association" at all is not to be found. John also mentions in one of his letters not to greet one who denies Jesus.... (if one wanted to take it that far) "Sinners" who sin merely make mistakes, they do not typically deny their god, esp JW's..... (of course, other religions interpret these passages differently according to their dogma)

I think it is common sense for anyone to limit their association with someone leading them down a bad path, and that doesn't have to be in a strictly religious context either. But flat out 100% shunning is clearly wrong, unloving, and not a bible teaching.....

How many people did Jesus disfellowship?

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