Illegals not allowed positions of responsibility?

by ElderEtta 17 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • ElderEtta
    ElderEtta

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    An illegal alien is a lawbreaker. I am disturbed by the Society’s apparent position of looking the other way. For example, an illegal alien can get baptized but cannot hold a position of responsibility.

    I can understand that if a person doesn’t divulge his status, then the elders couldn’t accurately know one way or the other and therefore allow baptism. However, being baptized – then not being allowed to serve in some responsible position because of illegal nationality status infers actual knowledge by the elders that they have a lawbreaker on their hands.

    Is this happening elsewhere?

    Etta

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Yes, that is a fact. Illegals are not allowed to be in positions of responsibility, such as MS or Elder. And it is applied relatively consistently in US congregations. However, they can still be baptized.

    BTS

  • ElderEtta
    ElderEtta

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    I don't know whether "accessory after the fact" comes into play here but if so, does that not make any knowing elders lawbreakers as well?

    Hey, I'm not placing an illegal immigrant into the same bucket alongside murderers and rapists. However, my role as citizen, or employer, or elder (I'm just a wife) is not to make judgment. We have a system of law for that. On the other hand, should my husband look the other way?

    Etta

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    I do not mean this as support of JWism in any way, but I don't see baptizing an illegal alien as being an accessory to anything. I don't categorize these sorts of migrants as being in the same category of moral evil as some of these others you mention.

    BTS

  • alanv
    alanv

    The bible very clearly says at Romans 13 that christians are to be in subjection to the superier authorities because they have been placed their by God. If the elders know that this is an illegal immigrant then it is their duty scriptually to inform the authorities. If then nothing happens then fine he could be appointed but if he is expelled from the country the elder at least know they have done the right thing informing the powers that be.

  • ElderEtta
    ElderEtta

    I've been fading for some 3 years now and hope that my elder husband can somehow see the light of the WT hypocrisy. This issue may be one in which he tips. Probably not.

    This situation is another one where WT goes to all costs to turn the other way when it comes to their membership breaking the law. Illegals could be providing big membership numbers for them and they don't want to disturb that.

    Etta

    ps: sorry about my posts -- see garbage code -- above where I pasted from Word. I'm quite new here.

  • sir82
    sir82

    I believe their justification for looking the other way regarding illegal immigrants is that Paul did not turn in the runaway slave although, legally, he was supposed to (in the book of Philemon). They consider it a matter between the political state and the immigrant, and in the interest of being "neutral" say nothing.

    I can, on one hand, understand a religious organization wanting to provide "refuge" for anyone & everyone regardless of their legal standing, and illegal immigrants in particular. The vast majority are decent, honest and hardworking, and took the step of illegally crossing the border due to desperation, a last resort.

    On the other hand, this attitude of "it's between the lawbreaker and the authorities" very easily carries over into other areas, and is in part responsible for the lax attitude toward known pedophiles remaining in the congregation, and not being reported at all in states where clergy reporting is not mandatory.

  • winstonchurchill
    winstonchurchill

    Well, I have to disgree here. There's enough real hypocrisy in the JW's organization, so don't start seeing ghosts.

    1. Name ONE church that turns in illegal aliens to Law enforcement . Are you guys for turning us in a society of tattle-tales? If you hire a guy to do your lanscaping and you find out he's illegal, will you call the cops? You'd probaly at most dismiss him, or more probably, just not hire him again. Excuse me, but most of what has been posted here is nonsense.

    2. Being subjet to civil goverments (Rom. 13) does not mean acting as law enoforcement agents. In the letter to Philemon, Paul talks about an escaped slave (a fairly serious crime in acient Rome). You can say that it was similar to being an illegal alien. Paul didn't turn him to authorities. He didn't have to; he wasn't part of the 'arm of law'

    3. Baptims is a religious act, and there are no legal requirements. Stop mixing both concepts. By that token no church should baptize those who drive without a license, build a fence without a city permit, and so on.

    4. The current JW's rule is that an illegal alien cannot hold congregation backed responsabilities; however, if they have come before CIS (formerly INS) to straighten their status and their case is assigned a number (thus showing that it will be considered), they can hold a named position, as they are not fugitives. If their case is denied by CIS, and their illegal status becomes permanent and without perspectives, they either lose their privileges (and proably get deported).

    I disagree with a lot of stuff within the JW's and especially the WTS. But I really don't like this paranoia, where some members of this forum will practically denounce JW's for breathing.

  • blondie
    blondie

    w77 3/15 pp. 191-192 Questions From Readers

    A man I know is progressing toward Christian baptism, but his visa to be in this country has expired. What should I advise him?

    You certainly should commend him for desiring to know and follow God’s counsel. The Scriptures urge Christians to be law-abiding, to pay to Caesar what is Caesar’s. (Matt. 22:21) Hence, it would be good for you to urge this man to do what he can to rectify his status, which may at present be considered that of an illegal alien.

    Evidently he is not stealing, lying, living in immorality or otherwise violating God’s moral laws plainly stated in the Bible. We mention this because a person who is breaking God’s laws must repent and turn around before he will qualify for Christian baptism. (1 Cor. 6:9, 10; Acts 26:20; 2:38) But, this man wants to know, What about complying with the laws of the land, such as in his case?

    The Bible advises Christians to obey the laws of the land in all matters where there is no conflict with God’s law. (Rom. 13:1; Acts 5:29) The apostle explained that by doing this we will not need to fear punishment from the authorities who punish lawbreakers. Also, we can thus have a clear conscience.—Rom. 13:3-5.

    Still, God’s Word does not charge the Christian congregation, through its overseers, with the obligation to become acquainted with all the details of civil and criminal law so as to enforce these. We can see this in how Paul handled the case of Onesimus.

    Onesimus was a slave of a Colossian Christian named Philemon. For some selfish reason Onesimus fled to Rome so he could lose himself in the masses of people there; he may even have robbed his master before fleeing. In Rome as a runaway slave (Latin, fugitivus) Onesimus came in contact with Paul, became a Christian and ministered to Paul. In time the apostle urged Onesimus to return to his legal master, Paul even encouraging Philemon to receive Onesimus as a brother and to treat him kindly.—Philem. 8-22.

    Take note that while Onesimus was in Rome the apostle Paul did not hand him over to the Roman authorities for punishment as a fugitive slave and possibly a thief. We know from his writings that Paul believed that a Christian should obey the law of the land, but plainly he did not consider it the congregation’s duty to serve as an arm of the government in policing individuals’ lives. Also, we can observe that Onesimus’ situation was not treated as a barrier to his getting baptized. Eventually Onesimus, likely motivated by counsel such as had been written earlier in Romans 13:1-5 and by Paul’s personal urgings, chose to return to his legal master.

    The Christian congregation today follows a course harmonious with this Biblical pattern. It does not, before allowing a person to get baptized or continue in the congregation, check to see if someone’s home meets every detail of the building code, whether he has satisfied every detail as to his legal status in the country, and so forth.

    This by no means suggests that God’s people care little about Caesar’s laws. On the contrary, we are well known as a people who strive to be law-abiding; many governmental officials have praised Jehovah’s Witnesses for this. It is even as Paul wrote about obeying the government, "Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it."—Rom. 13:3.

    In particular should men who take the lead in the congregation be exemplary in this respect. The Bible says about elders and ministerial servants that they should be "irreprehensible," ‘having a fine testimony from people on the outside’ and being "free from accusation." (1 Tim. 3:2, 7, 10) Thus a Christian who chooses to ignore well-known legal requirements of "Caesar" would hardly be in position to be recommended for such offices in the congregation. Men recommended for such privileges should be ones "holding firmly to the faithful word," not only in what they say, but also in how they choose to live, including their applying the counsel to pay "Caesar’s things to Caesar."—Titus 1:7-9.

    True, each individual, Christian or not, is personally responsible as to whether he complies with civil laws. Yet, it will be kind on your part to share with your acquaintance these Scriptural thoughts. Indeed, the Bible’s counsel to be obedient to governmental laws is wise and for our good. By applying it Christians can avoid troublesome problems and enjoy a clear conscience in serving God.

  • JHK
    JHK

    An illegal ca not serve as Ministerial Servant or Elder, but, at the same time: he can offer the Watchtower publications and accept donations of support for the Governing Body Bank, and put his illegal money in the contribution box in the Kingdom Hall!

    Money is not illegal, but person...

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