Is there a GROWING AWARENESS among Jehovah's Witnesses that SOMETHING is REALLY WRONG with the Organization?

by BonaFide 22 Replies latest jw friends

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  BonaFide

  I hope I can explain this clearly. Years ago, we all knew what a child molester was. But there were a lot of misconceptions, mishandled situations in and out of the congregations, and just a general non-awareness of the seriousness and pervasiveness of pedophiles.

  Not anymore. There are Government websites that maintain a registry, there are laws concerning housing, employment, even proximity to children.

  And GENERALLY SPEAKING, people are MORE AWARE of child molesters than they were years ago. There is more UNDERSTANDING of how to protect yourself, your children, etc.

  The same can be said of drunk driving. What was once almost sometimes a "comical" point of view regarding driving drunk is now regulated by stricter laws, punishments, programs to rehabilitate drunkenness, etc. It's not funny to even joke about having a beer or two and then driving. Awareness is much higher.

  Similarly, substance abuse, spousal abuse, steroid use by athletes, global warming, etc. There is just more AWARENESS now on so many fronts because of the Internet, cell phones, 100's of cable channels, networking, and so on.

  Yes, I am gettting to a point. SO, is there a growing AWARENESS among Witnesses that something is really wrong with the Organization? Not that everyone talks about it all the time, but is it there?

  I remember growing up in the truth that the speakers on Sunday used to say all sorts of crazy things. "Scientists are really stupid." "The only really honest people are JW's." "The churches are losing members and we are gaining members." NOT ANYMORE. Unless they are real old-timers, speakers can't say anything they want like they used to. There is just too much information out there. Same goes with those car group conversations, and JW groups in restaurants, you can't get away with nonsense like you used to be able to.

  Is this just a hopeful feeling that I have, perhaps because I regularly read this site and hear balanced arguments and truths regarding the Organization? Or is it that there is a SLOWLY GROWING AWARENESS by many Witnesses that there is something WRONG with the Organization?

  Well?

  BF
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  leavingwt

  My take...

  95% don't suspect a thing.

  That "feeling" that something is wrong is simply dismissed as "this world getting worse by the minute". "Critical times, hard to deal with" and such.

  Have you read 'Combatting Cult Mind Control', BF?

  To the controlled mind, failed prophecies/mistakes, etc, will actually strengthen the faith of many.

  -LWT
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  Doubting Bro

  I agree with lwt. There is always going to be a small minority that will awaken. Of those numbers, some will walk away and others will hang around for various reasons with family being the #1.

  BF - You may be transferring your awarness of the problems with the org to the average person in the congregation. I have a tendancy to do that as well because I can't see how anyone could possibly NOT see the issues. But, then I remember when I was a true believer not all that long ago.

  Did I get any smarter? No, just decided to honestly question a few things which lead to a very quick conclusion that not only are there serious problems with the WTS, they've never been God channel.

  I do think that the average JW is much different than the average JW of 20 years ago. The generation change in 95 killed whatever urgency there was in the movement. It took a while to bear fruit, but the apathy has certainly set in now.

  Now, if you want to talk about the teenage to young adult population - I think we're seeing a different story. They're the ones that are leaving in droves either on their own or being df'ed. And if the WTS doesn't do something to stem that tide, they'll begin to see numbers decrease as their loyal ones die off.
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  outbackaussie

  I would like to think that it would be possible that those still in would 'wake up' to the realities, but like LWT says, I think when confronted with that sort of thinking, it just serves to reinforce the whole "satan is using all angles to persecute us" mindset. It's a lose-lose thing. Even when you are in the thick of being disfellowshiped/shunned/ridiculed by family and friends you still find many blaming themselves, never the organisation etc.

  Awareness of evil things occuring doesn't mean that witnesses will equate that with evilness being inherent in the WTBTS structure/authorities. And if you spelled it out 'writing on the wall' style, they would still find a way to dress it differently so it fits with the training, not the reality.
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  flipper

  BONAFIDE- What LEAVING WT said. Completely. 95 % is an accurate figure he used in describing how many witnesses don't think anything is wrong with the society. To prove that point just think of how some of the witnesses you have talked with have responded about the " new light " on more anointed partaking, how the governing body has stated that " only they " give out new spiritual light - not the worldwide anointed. Most of these JW's are so hypnotized by mind control that they don't even NOTICE when a new thinking or point is brought out. And like Steve Hassan says in his books that many cults ( including witnesses ) use repetition in terms and phrasology to melt the information into it's members brains like a branding iron. If you get a chance to read Hassan's books " Combatting Cult Mind Control" and " Releasing the Bonds- Empowering People to Think for Themselves" it will assist you to REALLY understand HOW the witnesses are controlled and why it's so hard to break free of the WT societies control. Many times members of a cult won't start opening their minds until they are treated unjustly by higher ups in the cult. Good thread though. Keep up the great work , you are doing well ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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  The Berean

  Yes, and I believe that growing participation on this network is evidence of that reality.

  From Memorial attendance figures of 17 million plus compared with 7 million active ones, we also can surmise that more Witnesses "used to be" than are ... I believe that many of us used to be or still are "among" JWs.
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  Mickey mouse

  I think 5% are probably fully awake but going through the motions for family. Another 20-30% have the uncomfortable feeling that something isn't right but can't or won't think about it.
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  OUTLAW

  LWT nailed it.....95% don`t have a clue.....The WBT$ knows how to deal with the other 5%.. .........The WBT$ will simply DF them..Problem solved.....................OUTLAW
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  slimboyfat

  I don't know. While those who leave always tend to project their feelings onto others as Doubting Bro said, as if they are part of a wider disaffection, really people have always come and gone in the organization. On an individual basis the realization that the Witnesses are wrong is momentous, but on an organizational level it is swallowed up in the ebb and flow as beleivers come and go through various cycles of enthusiasm and commitment.

  On the other hand things do feel different somehow. Witnesses don't talk much about new developments like the new light on 1935 and the anointed any more. Some of the older ones were upset about the demise of the Book Study, but there is general resignation. And there is certainly less urgency about the 'end of the system of things'. In the 1980s people were running around saying the 'generation' was nearly up, the end had to be soon. Now what do they say? Not that much, and with little enthusiasm as far as I can tell. Even the leaders don't seen to know what they are doing; much of the "swagger" has gone as someone commented recently. Since Fred Franz died in 1992 most of the changes have been stop-gap measures to explain prophetic failues (the generation, king of the north, 1935 cut off for anointed) to save money (no food at conventions, paperback books, bethel cutbacks) or to avoid getting into trouble in the courts (stopping charging for literature so as not to fall under tax laws, allowing more blood fractions, changing policies on offenders). They are not coming up with anything new. I think many Witnesses on some level sense the organization is running out of steam or has lost its way.
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  Dagney

  The whole world evolves. That is just life. Things and people change, as they should. There is no way we can have the same feelings today we had about anything 10, 20 or more years ago. IMHO.

  I think my friends have the same questions today the had right along with me in the 90's. But there has been a choice to keep with the program not to rock the apple cart.

  I had dinner last night as I do every 5 weeks with my best friend who is a JW. She has continued to respect me and remain my friend without change. I felt she seem slightly distant yesterday, and wondered if me not meeting up together with other visiting long time JW friends a few weeks ago might be the problem. But I think it was me being sensitive.

  We have talked in depth about almost everything. Interestingly, she told me last night that she was going to start going out in service, (apparently she hasn"t been) now that they meet at the hall so she can work with different people. She also said she and her husband now want to do more for the congregation. Okaaay. She says she is happy she only goes to the meeting when she wants.

  I think facing the reality of the "truth about the troof" is to hard to face for most. I did tell her "Please don't do anything crazy that will mess up your retirement" and she said "don't worry, I won't." I think there is cognitive dissonance galore.