JWs, Christmas and "pagan origin"

by teejay 26 Replies latest jw friends

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  Utopian Reformist

  Here's my take on XMAS, and other traditionally, popular holidays:

  There are so many every day things in life that are from other than biblical origins. Therefore, while wedding rings, days of the week, costumes, and other things are from the ancient past, I am not necessarily bothered since modern people do not actually bown down, prostrate and begin praying and giving homage to these things.

  The only reason I personally avoid holidays is because I just don't like to be placed on anybody's schedule, but my own! It's my own human right to decide when I want to give gifts, when I want to celebrate and I just don't like the majority deciding for me and placing it on my calendar.

  I am so wary of anything that contains even a tiny hint of organizational influence and group dynamics that I just shy away and avoid all of the fuss. I enjoy hassle-free simple, uncomplicated living. Following traditions is a hassle. I can show love anytime I want without prejudice.

  So, holidays represent mass conformity to me and too much popularity.
• 

  larc

  teejay,

  Indireneed started a similiar thread, "How do you explain Christmas to a JW?" On that thread, Dogpatch (Randy Watters) posted a very detailed discussion of how to address the issue. Perhaps, that post would be helpful to you.
• 

  teejay

  metatron,

  The days of the week are pagan... the names of the months are pagan... dollar bills use spiritistic symbols...

  ... The Watchtower hypocrites pick and chose their paganism

  Beautiful.

  I said the same exact words to my wife. That's why her "because it has a pagan origin" means little to me. I told her that I would not be (and wished she wasn't, either) a supplicant to some men in Brooklyn who saw no harm is some things with pagan origins and were wholly against others. I need a better reason at this point in my life.

  Thanks, metatron.
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  Room 215,

  Among the things Brooklyn detests the most is being ignored. For that reason, so much of their policy amounts to a bid to stand out and be noticed-- being differnt for the sole sake of being different-- to ``stand out.'' That's why the observance of even the most innocuous of holidays, i.e. America's Thanksgiving, Mothers' Day, Fathers' Day, etc., are frowned upon if not banned outright.

  Pathetic. You're right - it's as you say. But it's pathetic. Little do they realize (or care about) the harm they do to little kids who, as the only JW in a classroom of non-JWs, are scared of sinning and somehow dishonoring their parents, their religion, and god himself and suffer way down deep. Believe me, I know.
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  Cygnus,

  Don't you think there is a rather large difference between secular, everyday items of daily involvement and borrowed _religious_ traditions assimilated into so-called "Christian" worship?

  No.
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  patio34,

  Well, I just want to relate that I went to my 1st work Xmas luncheon. It was wonderful! We had a delicious meal, sang carols, and laughed. It was a good thing . . .

  You mean you enjoyed the friendship and camaraderie of workmates, had a bite to eat and sang some songs? And you don't feel guilty or anything? Wonderful.

  Now, THAT'S what I'm talking about.
• 

  waiting

  The question was put forth (paraphrased):

  If jw women married to worldly men can *do* xmas, can jw men married to worldly women *do* xmas.

  I would think the WTBTS answer would be "NO." The man is the theocratic head of the family. By JW God, he'd better act like it.

  A genuine Christian should consider: Would following a custom indicate to others that I have adopted unscriptural beliefs or practices? The time period and location could influence the answer. A custom (or design) might have had a false religious meaning millenniums ago or might have such today in a distant land. But without going into time-consuming investigation, ask yourself: ‘What is the common view where I live?’—Compare 1 Corinthians 10:25-29.

  This is the one objection most likely to be encountered if the pagan argument fails, imo. This is the Thanksgiving argument..."What will people think?"

  An elder & his wife own a beautiful Victorian Restaurant near Charleston. Wonderful flowers, pictures, etc. and truly gourmet food. She provides settings for bridal showers, etc.....all year. She decorates to the hilt - and it's magazine beautiful. I asked how she got around xmas - 'cause she had to decorate.

  She just laughed and said she did "natural season decorating." And then winked. I took my cue from her.

  I think a lot of jw's are wanting sooooo badly to join in - give 'em an inch.....and they'll run with it. And good for them!

  waiting
• 

  Rex B13

  The comment:

  >It basically says that a JW wife can, without risking being referred to as a "dog returning to its vomit", make "holiday" purchases (gifts, wrapping, cards, etc), prepare "holiday" meals, participate in "holiday" socializing and the like at her non-JW husband's request. She must only avoid what would be considered an act of worship.

  Try and find what would be considered an act of worship in the context of exchanging gifts, or gathering with loved ones, or listening to beautiful music, or even looking at and participating in the ornamenting of a tree in one's home. The article specifically states that the individual can decide for themselves what they do and do not consider to constitute an act of worship or an activity of religious significance.
  It appears that the WTS is preparing itself for a come-back to the observance of Christmas and other holidays, or at least making a move to leave the matter to the individual's conscience.

  As usual, the apostate group of gremlins from Brooklyn take the reason for the observance (Christ's birth brought salvation to the world and peace to those who accept Him) totally out of the picture. This is another proof that they preach a false gospel.
  Rex
• 

  Rex B13

  Hi Cygnus,
  Being a loyal JW is still in your focus, isn't it?

  >Wedding rings certainly _are_ different. A couple will consider their marriage sacred, and symbolize their union with rings, but how does that compromise their religious fundamentals at all? It doesn't. However, faking generosity and complying with the LIE that Jesus was born on Dec 25, indeed making it some event that primitive Christians never gave such importance, well, I can certainly understand why some people who want to serve Jehovah "in spirit and in truth" would reject such holy-days as a detriment to their exercising faith by means of accurate knowledge.

  You have evidently NOT studied beyond JW publications about the early observance of the birth of Christ, have you? You will probably also disagree with the fact that Christ was worshipped from the very beginning of this sect of Judaism.
  NO ONE contends that Christ was born on Dec. 25. It is a day set aside to honor Christ and how it came about is not even an issue, except in your Watchtower addled brain.
  Accurate knowledge and Watchtowerism do not often coincide. LOL
  Rex
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  Scully

  waiting asked:
  

  QUESTION: If it's ok for a woman with a worldly husband to join in - and it's no sin as long as they don't do an *act of worship*.........is it ok for ALL jw's to do the same?

  The article is very plain in stating that the decision belongs to the individual. The only things that MUST be avoided are the ascribing religious significance to any of the objects or activities, or the rendering of an act of worship. So when the elders come calling one only needs to say "I do not consider these objects/activities to have religious significance, nor have I rendered an act of worship." End of story. If you like, you may wish to add "now beat it before I call the cops, you nosy hateful little freak!"

  Love, Scully

  It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63