** Asking the Hard Questions **

by FlyingHighNow 73 Replies latest jw friends

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  FlyingHighNow

  Thank you, Primate Dave. I'll find a link for you to find the websites of Episcopal churches closer to you.

  Deputy Dog, the important thing to me is not just that the Episcopal Church worships Jesus, but more so that they follow his example of love, kindness and generosity. Just because they don't browbeat you and try to scare you into controlling yourself, doesn't mean they are like a pub. Primate Dave is right, go to the church and give it a chance before you claim it like a pub. If you need a church that tells you what to do, what to think and when to think and do, this is probably not the church for you, unless you like to be encouraged to love God and your fellow humans and earth. The roots of this church go all the way back to the apostles.
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  FlyingHighNow

  I'm quite happy, now that I've shaken JW ism out of my mind and hair, mostly, to go to a church that doesn't claim to know the exact answers to every question and insist that you believe its way or hit the highway.
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  caliber

  However, in FHN's original post I sense a sincere desire to reach out to others with love and kindness..Dave

  I notice the original post information says after addressing what are called the" hard questions" it talks

  about "We do not fear these questions " I believe this to be a key point, fear runs in the opposite

  direction to love.. they are repellent to each other.. to love is not to fear!!!

  To find something, anything, a great truth or a lost pair of glasses, you must first believe there will be some advantage in finding it.” jude Law

  • Never lose faith in the power of love.. it is the deepest force of the universe ! Do not fear or mistrust ...to dismiss such thoughts too quickly

  for not in words but it's heart actions arise a torch for you ! ~~Caliber
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  writerpen

  Thanks for this post. It was the Episcopal Church that helped me through my departure of the Witnesses. A little poor parish in the inner city trying to help homeless folks; it was very inclusive. The priest, a woman, did for me in five years what my mother couldn't do in 18 years; she helped me to mature out of the childlike state most stay in for a long time after being raised a witness. I'll never forget sitting in her office crying and begging for solid answers to the questions presented at the outset of this post. She never gave me solid answers but helped me to understand that "not knowing the answers" and still being a good person and living a life of love is perhaps the greatest form of faith.

  I must admit, though, I've not been back to church in three years. I served in the Integrity USA - the Episcopal Church's GLBT activist group - nerve center during the General Convention in Columbus three years ago and just couldn't get over the horrible politics of the church. The system is set up so that the same old people keep attending the general convention where national-level issues are voted upon. It's like they weren't there for God, but for the "look at me factor" and the excitement of the politics. I was so disgusted with the church institution and the leaders of the GLBT group and decided to leave.

  However, I'll always be very appreciative of that little inner city parish and that wonderful priest who remains my strongest friend aside from my partner.

  I have to admit, though, your post has made me think of perhaps returning to the inclusiveness of that church.
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  FlyingHighNow

  I like the Episcopal Church also. I am a member of a Methodist Church. I am comfortable there also. There are definitely people at my church that are willing to discuss all these questions. There are some that are more conservative but almost everyone is willing to have intelligent discussions and welcomes questions.

  Scarred, my brownie troup used to meet at the Methodist Church. When one of my friends died in a house fire, her funeral was held there. She was ten, I was eleven. I recall it was a mild service and the people were very comforting.

  High services means a little more formal and probably at times prettier than low church. But low church is still quite lovely. St. Mark's was high church. The priest always wore the vestment and you could light candles for people. In the lower church service they priest may wear just the stole and there may not be candles to light. Though there will be candles included in the service. The differences are not stark. You still have the same service, just one is more formal. Communion is served at every service, bread and wine and you kneel at the rail for communion or a blessing from the priest. In larger churches there will usually be communion offered standing for those who don't wish to kneel.
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  FlyingHighNow

  It's like they weren't there for God, but for the "look at me factor" and the excitement of the politics. I was so disgusted with the church institution and the leaders of the GLBT group and decided to leave.

  Thank goodness this is not what's happening through out the church. If it was, then we would not have had a gay arch bishop or a woman arch bishop. The thing I hold as important about church politics is that the church is run by the people. Not some big, head honcho governing body or pope. Because each church has a vestry of elected members of the laity and the higher up government of the church is also influenced and voted for by the people, you have very good things going on and you have some stodgy things going on. But the good thing is that there's no pope or governing body running the show without question or impunity.

  So much beautiful, good and spiritual happens in the individual churches/parishes, that I overlook some of the silly politics of the higher parts of the Anglican structure.

  I have also had many wonderful things happen since my return to the church of my infancy. This has been 3 plus years ago. Don't overlook your lady priest friend and that small parish because of some stodgy goof offs higher in the church. The church I attend now is tiny, but they are like the mouse that roared, doing many things of outreach within and without into the greater community. We also share our church building with a black apostolic church congregation in exchange for them helping with yardwork and a little bit of financial support.
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  Deputy Dog

  FHN

  Deputy Dog, the important thing to me is not just that the Episcopal Church worships Jesus, but more so that they follow his example of love,

  Wow! Doesn't that sound familiar?

  Looks to me like the JWs would fit right in. In fact that's what they try to tell me they are doing. They say Jesus isn't to be worshipped, he is our example.

  I can see how you got sucked into the JWs
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  Deputy Dog

  FHN

  Do Episcopalians follow Jesus example of love, kindness and generosity, better than other "churches" in your opinion?
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  FlyingHighNow

  Wow! Doesn't that sound familiar?

  Looks to me like the JWs would fit right in. In fact that's what they try to tell me they are doing. They say Jesus isn't to be worshipped, he is our example.

  I can see how you got sucked into the JWs

  What do you think worshipping Jesus means? Saying that you are worshipping him, with your mouth? Acting like you are so faithful, as the Pharisees did? Giving even a 10th of the dill and cummin? Or would it be following his example in love? His greatest commandment is to love God and then to love your neighbor as yourself.

  Why are you trying to turn this into a competition between churches, DP? High control religions tend to be legalistic and that can cause members to be legalistic and judgmental, rather than help them to follow Jesus' example of love, kindness and generosity towards other people. I love that the Episcopal Church respects that all people are on unique spiritual journeys including YOU. They aren't in competition with you, your church, if you have one, or anyone else's church or beliefs. They believe officially in the trinity. My ideas on the trinity are different from the official doctrine of the church and they are fine with that. If you worship Jesus, why are you trying to scare people with hell?
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  FlyingHighNow

  Do Episcopalians follow Jesus example of love, kindness and generosity, better than other "churches" in your opinion?

  You don't have to go to any church to do this. You don't have to believe in God to follow Jesus' example. What is the scripture that talks about non christians who followed the law written in their hearts? A lot of churches follow Jesus example of love, kindness and generosity. The Episcopal Church is not the only church that is inclusive, kind, generous and following Jesus' extraordinary example of love. And even in high control churches there are some members who follow Jesus' example of love. Do that as one of Jehovah's Witnesses and it can get you into trouble.