Keeping the congregation clean- from the wickedness of the retarded (page 2)

White Dove

That is crueler than df'ing a non-mentally challenged person. How about the Biblical view that epilepsy is demonic infestation? It says it several times plain as day in the Bible. Epileptics are demonized. So, shouldn't they above all others get df'd? Dammed idiots.

blondie

If the elders judged her/him capable of making a dedication and getting baptized, then they could judge these people worthy of df'ing according to WT policy.

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w76 9/15 pp. 575-576 Questions From Readers ***

First Corinthians 7:14 states that children of a believing parent "are holy." Is baptism involved in such a child’s ‘holiness’ in God’s sight? What if the child is

retarded?

The apostle Paul is here discussing problems in a divided family. He encouraged the believing mate not to leave the unbeliever and, as a strong reason for keeping the marriage intact, said this: "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified in relation to his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified in relation to the brother; otherwise, your children would really be unclean, but now they are holy." (1 Cor. 7:14) This shows that God views such children according to the principle of family merit. By family merit is meant the holiness that God credits, or imputes, to minor children who are obedient, to the extent that the child is unaccountable. This comes about due to the valuable record of holiness and good deeds that "parents in union with the Lord" have in God’s sight. (Eph. 6:1) This family merit applies even when only one of the parents is a believer, as Paul’s above-quoted words indicate.

What, then, of baptism? A young child who is faithfully taught God’s Word will no doubt progress in knowledge and understanding, and in time reach the point where God’s spirit motivates him to make his own dedication to Jehovah and to request baptism. (1 Pet. 3:21) To be prepared for baptism, he must appreciate his need to repent, be converted and come into a proper relationship with God. (Acts 3:19; 8:34-36) After baptism, he would no longer be under family merit, but would be viewed as "holy" on his own account, being responsible before God to pursue a life of dedication.—1 Pet. 1:14-16; Col. 1:21-23.

Should parents of retarded children feel that baptism is in all cases a requirement for children to be viewed by God as worthy of his protection in times of judgment, as in the foretold "great tribulation"? The degree of retardation is clearly a determining factor, since some of such children remain with the mentality of a four- or five-year-old even when fully grown. The child may be able to grasp certain basic teachings of God’s Word and repeat these when asked. He (or she) may be obedient to the parents and abstain from doing certain things that have been pointed out as wrong and contrary to God’s will. But is the child able to make personal decisions, able to decide from his own mind and heart (not that of the parents) the course in life he wishes to take? Is he capable of comprehending and seeking a personal relationship with God, one that is not dependent upon his parents? Is he able to stand before a judicial body, accountable for any wrongdoing he may commit? If not, then such child is evidently not in position to be baptized but would continue under family merit in God‘s eyes, counted by him as "holy" in that sense.

Hence, the matter should not be viewed emotionally but on the basis of Scriptural teachings. If the retardation is not great and the child is indeed capable of becoming a disciple of God’s Son, serving God with his own ‘heart, soul, mind and strength,’ then he could be aided to reach the point of baptism. (Mark 12:30) He then should be able to "carry his own load" of spiritual responsibility. (Gal. 6:5) The parents could seek the counsel of the elders if they are in doubt.

How faith-strengthening and comforting to know that young children, as well as mentally retarded older ones, may be regarded as "holy" due to family merit!

BabaYaga

Bumped and bookmarked.

AWAKE&WATCHING

*sticky note* I'm so effing pissed off I can't even comment.

WTWizard

What happens when a child is capable of wanting to get baptized only because his parents repeatedly say so, but not why? This is what it sounds like: small children can fit into this category. Many of them will do whatever their parents want them to, because they want to please them--and if that means getting baptized at age 6 (or if they are retarded), that means they get baptized at age 6 without knowing what they are in for.

And it is stupid to disfellowship someone for having little or no capacity to understand that a course is wrong. That is like disfellowshipping someone with Tourette's for swearing on the platform--perhaps it would have been more appropriate to not allow such a person on stage, but still treating that person as a human being with a disability (it's not like they are swearing and meaning it). Or, with epilepsy, supposing the person has a seizure at the door and is disfellowshipped for "loose conduct" that is purely the result of the epilepsy. A better solution would be taking magnesium, then taking medication if the condition is still there, and then to avoid these situations that could cause problems if they flare up.

If it's so bad to do something because you have a mental disability (of any kind, whether you are retarded, mentally ill, or any neurological disorder whatsoever), then why do they allow pedophiles to continue doing their sxxx and remain in good standing?

LouBelle

Yes the loving br. and sis. would not include any mentally challenged br. & sis. in outings nor would they speak to them at the meeting.

In our congregation there was DAVE - he really was a sweet guy and meant no harm. He would answer up a well researched answer but ppl would roll their eyes because he took a while in delivering it. Initially he was allowed to do the mikes but again ppl would laugh at him. It was sad.

Initially I was one of those that rolled my eyes, I then started making a point of getting to know him. He would always stick out his hand and introduce himself - he was a very sweet man and in hindsight I could have done so much more.

blondie

I would like to say that the treatment of developmentally able children and adults was kind in my area. I think this is more a function of the individual. They aren't avoided any more than any person viewed as "odd" in the congregation. It is not a given that jws as a group think badly of them. I just think that jws at times are just as ignorant as the general human population which of course belies their claim that they are better than non-jws. Blondie

wobble

Surely God's Spirit Directed Organization (TM) is guided to act this way, what kind of spirit do you think directs them ?

Love

Wobble

blondie

Wobble, I don't think the WTS is directed to act this way or directs others to do so. I do believe that individual jws are totally unaffected by any positive information in the Bible. I found that people with a religion and without can act this way. So all have an equal opportunity to be ignorant.

rebel8

Of course they DF the developmentally disabled! After all, who is it that causes mental retardation, mental illness, and basically any sort of shortcoming? hmm? Satan, of course! (Isn't this in the Bible? Didn't he cause muteness, etc.?)

Satan must have been able to use his former angel powers to read the person's heart in utero and realize she was one of his followers.

(That is what I was told by a jw. Not kidding.)

Keeping the congregation clean- from the wickedness of the retarded

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