Medical advances, indoor plumbing, strolling down the grocery aisles, entertainment, washing machines, lack of war with the next town over the water supply or anything else, women nearly equal, my gosh don't these people appreciate life at all?
this evil ...wicked.....rotton system of things.....NOT!!!!.........
by oompa 36 Replies latest watchtower bible
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DeanOs
OOmpa, thanks for your reply to my comment - but it HAS NOT always been that way! YOu're making a classic incorrect assumption.
WHy not (even go to) Wikipedia and see what the longevity of the average Zimbabwean (who have 99 % literacy) was even 20 years ago !
Way higher!!Was the Health System a wreck -a s it IS now - NO!
Were thousands THEN dying of Cholera ?
-- NO! --I could continue,.. don't mean to 'burst your bubble' /// but sadly you are in denial.
What is the population of the continent of Africa ?
Answer that and you should get some better perspective!Try a read of "THE STATE OF AFRICA" by Meredith.
Also, THE BATTLE FOR ZIMBABWE, by
Now, to BEREAN
you ' rest your case'
sorry buddy; you don't even have a 'case' to make!!
Why is it you glibly state my world is 'better than it has ever been'..?
Do you or have you actually experienced 'my' world..?
I might be wrong, but I don't think so!
So, reconsider...!Then too, none have actually answered the question I asked.
Why not.. hmm, rather thinly veiled glib replies without substance.
My world is one of ever-escalating crime, the highest murder rate in the world... along with one-in-four individuals having HIV and nearly as
many living with full-blown AIDS.. daily thousands die through AIDs-related TB and other otherwise very easily curable causes.
Millions are raised by child-headed households in our region .. was that the case before.. where are the parents? Dead or dying of HIV-Aids, was that the case before??
Is it sad! Damn RIGHT!! Can you see it? My point is to assist you in re-assessing your view so as to be more HOLISTIC in your appraisal, please.Do you see daily emaciated bodies that come in to a public Recreational facility?? And that is normal> iS that normal where YOU are..!
Brighter, better..?? Maybe if you're British.. or an A+ if ... AHhhh well ... Berean.. please .. I am happy to do more research, supply sources and send stats on our changing reality! One concession here is the end of Apartheid. Great. But ask yourself, why have nearly two million skilled people left SoutH Africa in little under 15 years .?? .. because, Berean.. things have got better.../??? -
DeanOs
Beksbks..
Congratulations, its no wonder you have the American flag alongside your statement AS
to make a simple comparison of the very items you mentioned - is EXACTLY the reason for the catastrophic situation in Zimbabwe,
which did precisely have all of the fore-said you mentioned -- and they ARE NO isolated example.
As I mentioned above; two million SOuth Africans have left... and three Million Zimbabweans have over the last six years (mostly illegally)poured
over into the borders into (our country) ie. South Africa: and AS a Direct RESULT - in oppo to what you said.. there HAS BEEN an 'explosion' of organized Xenophobic violence... hithertofore never seen here.. nor anywhere in the SADC region. ( ??Lack of war with the next town??) when one of the very reasons has to do with the lack of piped water -they HAD it- and everthing has collapsed.. due to corrupt rule of Robert Mugabe.. hence the skirmishes and death camps there (see: www.TheZImbabwean.co.uk ) and collateral damage to civilians , political opponents such as the MDC in particular , under Morgan Tsvangirai and also the faction under Proffessor Arthur Martumbare.
Why the Cholera (i had already mentioned in above post) ... something that SHOULD be easily treatable ..? WHy?due to the unsanitory water and lack of Medical facilities..NOW IF .. if they had not had these before, I would say.. ah, things as per usual.. but Crap! .. things have gone from great to ble*ding awful..
"Strolling down the grocery isles..?" strolling down/// are you insane?? have you thought of that in regions of the Congo.. or for the impoverished in Uganda (you been there lately??? I have.. how the h*ll can you speak of that which you know squat"") as for the 'isles' of shops in Zim (babwe) there has hardly been a thing on the shelves of this former 'bread-basket' of Africa for number of years,,, as the rate of inflation is currently at a worse than staggering 200 Million percent..! Oh , yeah, .. you knew that?? Are you altogether ill-informed.. or simply not-knowing the world outside of your sanitory, clean-water piped water.. yada yada..
If you watch many of the children here, at play.. having lost other young siblings used (this especially in the congo) used as child soldiers.. and parents lost to war.. their 'entertainement' is to play 'war'
And..., hell... I don't know where you are at!! I acknowledge that the reality you describe IS your reality.. but that is where it ends..for 1 Billion people (half of them, largely VERY oppressed women,, with rampant 'female circumcision' and all it entails - really sad) it is 'hell' and it is
getting
worse. Please.. see reality here too. Thank you.
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beksbks
DeanO,
I believe the discussion here is about the fact that the modern world in general is much better off than it has been. Daily life for most of the world is better. The HIV epidemic is horrible, but there is hope. And more research every day. At least we have modern science at work on it. What would it have done to the world 100 years ago? There have been horrible disease epidemics many times in history. We are in a better position to stop or control them now. Overall, humans have higher living standards than ever before. From what I've read, it is fair to say that Zimbabwe has had a somewhat tumultuous past. Although I admit I have not read much.
Isn't there a new political climate? Hopefully things will improve.
This does make me wonder why instead of spending billions in Iraq, America and the UN aren't doing something to improve conditions in places like Zimbabwe.
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beksbks
My last post was before you replied to me. DeanO, were you a JW? That is at the root of the discussion on this thread.
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winstonchurchill
Just a thought: I really don't think we have (at least I don't) enough information to stipulate the world (not you city, not your country, not your continent, but the WORLD) is in better or worse shape than ever.
However, I have to say that years ago -I vividly rember the moment- as I was preaching along with a local elder during my visit, in a very poor neighborhood, I saw a man helping a homeless, elderly, apparenly blind woman cross a busy street, then give her a few bills. It was a scene of compassion. And since at that moment we were talking about how petty and selfish some elders within the congregation were being, I pointed him to this act of kindness we were just witnessing, and told him: "See, people are good. There's good people everywhere, even outside the congregations, people with good hearts. Seing this makes me furious about how much evil we see inside the congregations". I think he was astonished, listening to the CO saying this, but wouldn't (and couldn't rebut).
To this day it amazes me how on that ocasion I talked from my heart, without thinking, and it was the starting point (at least the one I remember) of my realization that the outside world was not as terrible and hopeless as I had been taught. Almost 15 years after that, I have only found more evidence convincing me that the contrast between JW and 'Worldly' people is just a big myth.
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Quirky1
I smell a JW defender......
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DeanOs
I must give in to the admission that you are the bigger in elements of self-control than I :) Good on yer beksbks!!
Ok, umm yes,, I was a J W.., and have not as yet fomally 'cut the cord'. for reasons of spouse and in-laws.
Yes, I understand what you are saying..about the treatment 100 years ago, and that sure i t would ha ve been a whole lot worse. Correct! And that surely would have been quite awful..! Sure. As to Zim's 'tumultuous past'.. ah no! They were literally the chief provider of food for the bulk of Africa, due to very productive commercial farming. Yes, under the "Ian Smith" governance, there was (after he declared U D I , or Unilateral Declaration of Independence ..from U.K.) some degree of unfair treatment.. but nothing at all approaching the genocide in (formerly German South West Africa) and by King Leopold of Belgium in the <then>Belgian Congo,.. with wholesale slaughter..! (And yes, showing how evil those times were, in comparison with now).
But, it was particularly after the "Land invasions" and racist actions of the so-called war veterans of the former "war of Liberation" that preceded the Independence of Zimbabwe that led to collapse of its agicultural sector and too its economy (as Governor of the Reserve Bank, Gideon Gono; printed money like it was tissue paper, to fund numerous ...) anyway these combination of factors led collectively to Zim's currently being a 'failing state'.
Indeed; I wish the U S did or would help in the case of Zim.. but no way!! Anyhow, the current (so-called) Unity Government is really a farce, IMO; and too the opposition ( Movement for Democratic Change, or M D C..who has now its leader M. Tsvangiri as Prime Minister) has had his wife 'accidently killed' in a head-on collision two weeks after he was inaugerated! His grand-daughter 'drowned' just weeks thereafter.. is it little wonder he is ( n o w ) making 'noises' that sound like "we're all having a Summer Holiday"...
Oh, I mistakenly failed to mention the author of "BATTLE FOR ZIMBABWE" is Geoff Hill. It outlines and pointedly ..with good reason.. shows that as long as Mugabe is at the helm (and he is, and shall remain so).. then there is suffering and it is worsening. I do hope things 'change'..
My studies are in African Politics (its my 'area of speciality' , so to speak.. at the University of South Africa , or UNISA).. and while I understand you speak of 'the world in general'.. I personally have spent time as well in South America, and have family and friends in India..and family in Central America.. collectively a larger portion of people in these countries experience terrible suffering, and t m k medical advantage is more limited to those who can afford it. I care to repeat to emphasize -- 1 Billion live in Africa alone.. that is at least one in seven -- a sizeable proportion.. AND bear in mind things are quite skewed , respectfully ; as most of those without means to proper nutrition can NOT 'argue their case' over the net.. as we can.. the silent ( x?x % ). Who is to 'speak on their behalf' . ? With thanks for reading and responding :)
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beksbks
Dean, my comments and opinions would have been very different if the discussion were on politics and obvious unacceptable conditions in parts of the world. My above comments are strictly having to do with the JW mindset.
I do believe that humans have more opportunity for good today than ever before. That does not mean that (mostly due to the greed of men) everyone is able to avail themselves of it.
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mindmelda
I was reading the works of evolutionary psychologist Jared Diamond a while ago and it was a huge eye opener for me. He had all this compelling evidence that humans are actually getting LESS violent as time goes on.
Oh sure, it's hard to believe when you watch the news some nights, but it's all relative. In Bronze Age societies (we're talking Biblical times here) the usual rate of loss for young men due to violence was...get this...a minimum of 40%! Diamond does the math for you; I can't because I suck at math.
Studies across the board say the more primitive the society, the more violence, the more death from violence. Even WWII and Viet Nam, the most violent, worldwide conflicts in human history, did not have a 40% loss of males in their prime due to the war and associated violence. It was about 10%, something around that.
That's not a statistic you'll be reading in the Watchtower. Because it doesn't support their ideas that things are getting worse and worse as time goes one. Things are CHANGING, and certainly, humans will have to keep changing with them. The climate, energy resources, how we grow food, what we eat, what we wear, what kind of houses we live in, our transportation, all those things will have to adapt to the changing conditions of the earth and technology and always have. But, that's not equivalent to things getting worse. Unless you find change frightening, and yes, most people do.