AllElseFails, thank you for your reply.
You said:
"The law is a great example - the law carries authority though it is an impersonal thing. The law has the authority of the government behind it, just as the spirit (if it is impersonal) has the authority of Jehovah behind it. As you agree the "name" in this verse could refer only to the authority - certainly not a clear point either way to build belief on. The law can be refered to in many ways - as having intent, as being fair,"
My Reply:
I agree that things that are impersonal can (and have been) personified in the Bible, such as The Law.
However, I cannot see why Jesus would have commanded people to baptize in the authority (or name) of The Father, The Son, and an impersonal force. That doesn't make sense to me. Especially if that impersonal force is a part of God, then why does it need to mentioned separately? The only reason that I can see for The Spirit to be mentioned separately from The Father is if The Spirit is a different Person.
The same reasoning applies to many other verses in the New Testament. Why would the Bible writers give credit to an impersonal force (separately from the credit that is given to The Father), especially since this impersonal force would be part of God the Father? Why not just give the credit to God the Father? The only explanation I can find is that The Spirit must have been a distinct Person who should be honored equally with The Father and The Son.
You said:
"I do not see in 16:14 the phrase "given everything he received" I don't see anything that indicates that at all. Again maybe the New World Translation has changed something here? I don't see his name or authority as clearly part of this exchange."
I apologize, I meant to say John 16:14 AND 15. Not just verse 14. Here is how both verses read in the New American Standard Bible:
John 16:14-15 (NASB): "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.
Jesus said that all things that The Father has are His, and that The Spirit takes from Jesus all the things that He shares with The Father. In other words, all Three Persons share all things.
Look at some other verses where Jesus teaches that He shares all things (and all authority or power) with The Father:
John 3:31, 35 (ESV): He who comes from above is above all. ... The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand.
John 17:2 (ESV): since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him.
John 17:10 (NASB): and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them.
You said:
"I agree and have no good explanation for this except that the writers have poetic license in some of these verses. (lame yeah?) I do not see how a "person could be poured out at Pentacost 33CE or empower Christians through out history. Or be something God gives us if we pray for it."
Good point. It must be one way or the other. Either The Spirit is a Person and the Bible uses figuratively language sometimes when speaking about Him ("pouring out", etc.), or the Spirit is an impersonal force and the Bible personifies it sometimes (calling it "He" and saying it has a mind and will and hears and speaks).
I recommend that you examine very closely all of the verses that speak about the Holy Spirit, and look at the context, and then apply the same reasoning and logic that you apply to whether or not angels, Satan, or the demons are persons or impersonal forces, and then make your decision about whether you believe The Spirit is a Person or impersonal force.
To me, the verses that convinced me that The Spirit was a Person were the ones that say He has a mind, He has His own will, He chooses things, He feels things, and He is always mentioned on an equal level with God and Jesus, and He is given credit for things separately from The Father and The Son.
You said:
"Also would you care to comment on John 17:11's use of "they may be one just as we are." I still think this verse explains the realtionship well. The Son and Father are one the same way we Christians are one - united in purpose and intent. Just as a husband and wife become one in purpose at their marriage."
In that context of John 17, I would say that you're right. Jesus is saying that Christians will be united just like The Father and Son are united (in purpose and will and love).
However, the context is different in John 10.
Starting at John 10:24, the focus is on Jesus' identity. Jesus says that The Father is greater than all, and then He says "I and The Father are One." The Jews then try to stone Him for claiming to be God. Jesus then says The Father is in The Son and The Son is in The Father (in other words, they share the same Nature or Essence). They try to arrest him.
In order to correctly understand any passage, we always have to closely examine the context. The "One" in chapter 10 is Nature, and the "One" in chapter 17 is "unity" or "purpose."
