JW Decline (page 3)

Simon

No, I don't know who does it but it must have taken a serious amount of work which I'm sure has helped a lot of people and will continue to do so.

Pathofthorns

I found this site particularly useful when i began examining things. I found it interesting just how many hours needed to be spent to bring one person to the point of baptism in Canada.

The statistics showed it took 8195 hours. This includes children who get baptized. Factoring that in, imagine just how hopeless it is for a 10 hour/month pub to bring someone into the truth. Factor in the number of those leaving and you realize you are hitting your head against a wall.

Very interesting about Japan. Talk about a humiliation after all those speakers that blew about how "obedient" the japanese were and how amazing their growth and pioneer to publisher ratio was. Poor japanese, getting screwed twice by America

Also, interesting that France has the highest decrease. Perhaps cult-awareness has left a few scratching their heads???

Path

thinker

Waiting,
Is the scripture you are looking for, Zech. 8:23?
TW

Martini,
I disagree with your conclusions. I believe MOST Witnesses already have doubts. In the past, those doubts could only be faced privately during what little free time was available to them. The internet gives them a private means of exploring those doubts and discussing them with others. (as this forum shows)
Thinker

Pathofthorns

Thinker:

I think it's more accurate to say that most Witnesses have "concerns", in that they see things that don't really add up. But I think most do believe that "its the truth". Once you find things out, you begin a downward spiral and would find it very difficult to remain an active Witness.

People look at the internet and "apostate" stuff out of curiosity innitially, not generally because they have doubts. Then if the information is well presented and supported, they tend to look further because the information has raised doubt.

It often acknowledges many of the areas they've been bothered by, such as lack of love etc. and many of the teachings they've been burned by such as the "generation" change or lifestyle things such as education.

People realize the way they feel is not because they are weak, but that the problem lies within the "system". Without this vital connection, an individual can find himself trapped in a system he believes to be true and keeps punishing himself for never doing enough. The internet has been helpful in this regard.

Path

Edited by - pathofthorns on 24 December 2000 10:12:56

amylhassed

I think that JW's decline is not only brcause of the Internet but also because of the other means of communication such as radio, television, newspaper, magazine, and so on. In developed countries they (JW's) are dropping down, in the meantime in the so-called "thirld world" countries they are increasing. Why?

Well, recently, I have posted a message about this topic on H2O (Hourglass 2 Outpost). Now I will post it here, if you do not mind. Tell me what you think.

This is the message:

"Well, I want to say a few things about the Governing Body and the faithful and discreet slave, if you do not mind.

To begin with, I want to state that I have nothing against Jehovah's Witnesses as individuals. What I really loathe is the brainwashing system maintained by the Governing Body and faithful and discreet slave on those poor believers who think they are on the right way.

I do agree that they need help to fathom what it is happening inside their organization. Unfortunately, most of those who are Jehovah’s Witnesses live in poor countries; thus, they do not have much access to information, they do not have the opportunity to go to school or even universities, they do not have the opportunity to become THINKERS.

If we have a close look at Jehovah’s Witnesses’s census took in the last years, we will see that a great deal of people from developed countries are breaking their links with the Society; this mean that the number of Jehovah’s Witnesses in these countries is dropping down, I dare to say drastically. However, in the so-called ‘third world’ countries, we can notice that this number is going up. With this in mind, a question has to be asked: WHY? WHY IS THIS HAPPENING?

The answer is simple, and it comes to show that the Governing Body as well as the faithful and discreet slave is really controlling people’s way of thinking.

In developed countries, people, mostly youngsters, are going to universities, they are reading more, they are searching for information, they are becoming conscious of their existence, they want to ‘control’ not to be controlled. Consequently, the Watch Tower is facing acute problems in holding the reins of those who are becoming THINKERS. Because they want something here and now. They want to leave something to their children. They are aware that what really matters is the present.

On the other hand, we have those believers from third countries, or countries which are on their way to become developed. People from such countries are poor, they do not have gorgeous houses, they do not own much, they do not read a lot, they do not pay attention to what is going around. From this we can conclude that these people are easier to be controlled. Merely because they want to become ‘rich’, they want to own something, so what they do not have here in this world, they will have in the new world (Paradise); they do not have much study, thus they cannot think clearly and logically, they cannot question – if they dare to do so, they are disfellowshipped – the doctrine of their belief; they do not want to lose the friends they have inside the organization – at least they think they are friends until the day they are disfellowshipped; they are afraid of losing the things they are promised.

With this we can see that the Governing Body and the faithful and discreet slave are holding a social preaching. With their magazines (The Watch Tower and Awake!) they will spread a message of hope for the poor, why not to say for the ignorant who cannot see the lion (organization) which is at their side (in fact, that they are already inside) and cannot see how harmful is that lion to them. The Society cannot do anything to put those numbers up again in developed countries, but they will take their time with the rest of the world."

So, do you have anything to say? I hope so!!!

RedhorseWoman

Amyl,

I think you have summed up many of the points very well. Additionally, the much-touted "literacy" programs set up in the third world countries would tend to bring in more members. We will teach you to read....as long as you study OUR literature. Good way to get them hooked, I would think.

amylhassed

To tell you the truth, I have not thought about the literacy program, thank you very much indeed for reminding me of that one.

larc

Update,

I posted again to bring this subject to the top of the charts. After rereading this thread, I noticed that Logical deleted all his posts. I guess that's easier than admitting you are wrong.

Waiting, that site that Simon posted that looked overwhelming to you is where I got my summary conclusions. It does look overwhelming and that's why it took me all night to get it all together.

Happy reading newbies and further comments will be appreciated.

ozziepost

G'day all and thanks for a most interesting thread.

It seems to me that some cautionary comments need to be considered.

larc: Yes, it's true that the rate of increase is declining, but nonetheless there is still increase. In most orgs a similar pattern of growth emerges over time i.e. there is an initial spurt in its infancy, then a levelling off as it matures. But the increase in total numbers in the recent past is still much greater in numerical terms than in years gone by. I agree that the "quality" i.e. hours per pub and R/V, studies has declined per capita. This bodes ill for the future, as has already been seen in Japan where the latest decline in pubs followed years of declining baptisms.

Path: Don't get too excited about France. All Christian churches/groups i.e. non-Catholic are being persecuted there.

Now to expose my own thoughts!

It seems to me that there are several factors involved in the decline.
You might have had doubts over the years that you have put to the back of your mind, but then something happens, that I call a 'catalyst' that causes you to stop and think. That's when you turn to the internet/Franz's books. Once you have been there, it's not possible to continue in the same blind obedience in the spiritual paradise. What is it that acts as a catalyst? Usually some harsh actions of the elders. Time and time again as we read testimonies here and on other boards, it's the actions of elders that causes people hurt and discouragement which then makes for receptiveness to having their eyes of understanding opened to the real state of the 'truth'.

And so here we are. Welcome from me too in the magical land of Oz to all the newbies. As Martini says: Hang on....It's going to be a long ride folks. Well put!

Ozzie (of the lighter side posting class)

TR

One thing that might help the resolve of JW's to stay in the Org. is the scary prospect of running into apostates. I remember talk about apostates as a JW, and my thought at the time was; man, those apostates are controlled by the devil and they are going to die eternally. Who wants that! Why would any JW want to appose Jehovah's org?! They will lose eventually!

So there is a mindset of fear of the unknown for JW's. Only the most blinded of JW's can cross the line into the apostate realm and go back. Otherwise, once that line is crossed, it starts to become clear that the WTS is anything but "the truth."

TR

JW Decline

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