Morning Worship at Bethel - Social Security and Pensions

by Bethelite Elder 11 Replies latest jw friends

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  Bethelite Elder

  Recently,

  There was a morning worship a few days ago where the GB member spoke about false security. He stated that many people look to Social Security and pensions for their security and how unwise that is. I wonder what prompted his comments, perhaps the recession?

  Now, we all understand that Bethelites do not have any social security, a pension plan, in fact they do not have health insurance. However, in the branch manual it illudes to the fact that after a member has served at Bethel over 5 years, he will be cared for. Also, that was a common thought among Bethelites over the years. However, we see that this has changed or was an unwritten myth all along.

  I am trying to understand how Religious Orders have the ability to keep volunteers as full-time workers and not be considered employees. I could understand it better if they took care of people or volunteers properly. However, I have seen first hand over the years that they often send people away with very little assistance if they are sick. For example, I had a fellow worker that got some bleach in his eye while working and he was told to leave. The poor guy barely had two quarters to rub together. He was encouraged to go and seek help from his family.

  I wonder if the Government allows Religious Orders to function in this manner, because they think that they will do the right thing for people in the name of God and Love. For instance, when the article was presented in the newspaper about Brenda Upton (the sister that sued the society after she was hurt there) it was implied that the judge felt as though the workers at Watchtower; performed tasks that would fall under an employment relationship.

  Basicly, you work at the Branch for 20-30 years, all the time- nothing is paid into social security. If you get hurt or sick, they just let you go with little assistance. (You may get a measure of help if they allow you to Special Pioneer, however, they may decide to take you off that someday) ---So then they just expect you to go and get help from the state, especially if you can't work due to health reasons.

  With the new developments in Spain, do you think that we might see changes here in the United States, in this regard? Where is the best place to write to or inquire for change about this matter? Would the Social Security Department be a good starting point? Does anyone have any solid experiences to share?

  I know some may say, "well they chose to go there, and so they have to deal with it," however, I don't think that a lot of the 19 year olds that go there, know how it really works, because they only know what they read in the literature, different story.
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  leavingwt

  However, in the branch manual it illudes to the fact that after a member has served at Bethel over 5 years, he will be cared for.

  Actually, at 5 years you were considered a REGULAR Bethelite.

  The Branch manual stated that 15 years was the point at which they were obligated to care for your livelihood.

  Yes, you are correct. We now know that this number was a joke. Many Bethelites have been put out to pasture ("serve where the need is great") within the last few years.

  The 15-year promise wasn't worth the paper it was printed on.

  "If you mess with the Bull [Destructive Cult], you'll get the horns."
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  Witness 007

  "Bleach in his eye"......his family would gladly look after him since he "took a bullet for Jehovah." All Cults use their followers money, assets, labour...thats what it's all about....you don't need your house, sign it over to us.

  Nice to hear from you, how you doing, you seem really worried about the canning of Bethelites as you post about this all the time. Hope your okay.
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  Amazing

  Bethelite Elder,

  I wonder if the Government allows Religious Orders to function in this manner, because they think that they will do the right thing for people in the name of God and Love. For instance, when the article was presented in the newspaper about Brenda Upton (the sister that sued the society after she was hurt there) it was implied that the judge felt as though the workers at Watchtower; performed tasks that would fall under an employment relationship.

  The Government stays out religious business unless IRS regulations are violated or crimes are committed. We do not need more government in our lives. Bethelites sign the forms exempting themselves from normal minimum wages, etc. They are legal adults, and thus are able to understand what they sign ... or they should at least be basically competent. My son-in-law was at Bethel, and showed me all the paperwork. The Watchtower Society covers its legal ass very well.

  The 'religious order' method is based on how Churches, like the Catholic Church, take care of Priests and Nuns for life ... from day one. Unfortunately, the Watchtower is a fraud religion, and does not take care of its servants. As long as members of a religious order take a vow of poverty and obedience, they are exempted from labor laws, tax laws, and so not receive social security benefits. This is because they do not pay into the social security system ... therefore they do not deserve to draw from it. They should make this choice with that understanding. Therefore, Bethelites signed up for the program that the Watchtower has, and if they do not like it, they need to leave ... and if the Society is cutting them loose without benefits, then that is better for them in the long run, as this gives them a better chance to see the organization for what it is.

  For aging Bethelites who have been there a long time, they do get a severance and they are supposed to get some sort of stipend, but it is not very good. Ray Franz at least received $10,000 ... but then again, he was a GB member ... and I think had the Society known what he would eventually publish, they may have offered him even more to buy off his silence ... especially the impact his books have had on the JW community.
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  Mrs. Fiorini

  I have heard that Bethelites are required to take a vow of poverty and I don't understand it. Maybe someone can explain.

  I know that some religious orders (for example Franciscans, Dominicans, etc) have their members take a vow of poverty as part of their spiritual path. As a member of those religious communities, they share their material posessions in common. They become like a family, and agree to take care of each other until their deaths. This care continues even into old age when the member is no longer able to be productive. Once a member commits to the order, all understand that it is a lifetime relationship. The order will have a means of income, and often a place, or places of residence. The members will turn over any money they make to the community as a whole to be used for the good of all. It is similar to a husband and wife comingling finances, but on a larger scale. They often, but not always, share housing, cars, etc. This applies to certain religious orders only. It does not apply to the average Catholic priest, who is not in an order and is not required to take a vow of poverty.

  What I don't understand is why the WT uses this, and why a Bethelite must operate under this system. The WT has never promoted poverty as a spiritual path. They don't ask Bethelites to commit to a lifetime relationship where they are expected to spend the rest of their lives in the community (although they seem to have promised that could be available to some). I'm not sure what purpose this arrangement serves except to save the WT money and provide them a loophole from certain financial obligations to their workers.

  Please someone give me futher information about this if I am missing something here. But at this point, it reminds me of how the WT tries to claim clergy penitent privilege on confessions of child abusers. As a court recently found, they don't keep "confessions" confidential or use them only for the purpose of the spiritual benefit of the one confessing. Instead they report and keep detailed records of everything, and try to use the process as an excuse not to tell the police. That is a perversion of the practice (at least from the Catholic point of view). I wonder if the vow of poverty is a similar situation.

  Any infomation that could shed light on this subject would be appreciated.
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  yknot

  Mrs. Fiorini...... G-Jobbing was discovered by IRS and they wanted their take!

  Bethelite Elder glad to see you back on the board!

  I think the whole Bethel system will be overhauled. Why keep workers for decades when they could easily borrow ideas from the Mormons and Jews! Think about it a couple of years or a summer at Bethel as a kibbutz then onto 2 year missionary work supported by your local KH or circuit.

  ...... I feel bad for the Bethelites, when I was 21 I decided to marry instead of seeking the Bethel path that was prepared for me since birth.....

  I spent years wondering (read- feeling guilty for being selfish) if I made the right decision and was taunted by peers who did go.....it is only recently that I can say with a good conscience that I made the right decision.

  What of course is really disgusting is the ongoing call to the young ones in our KH to apply for Bethel! The CO didn't even know about the layoffs until one of the KHs he visited before us enlightened him! Lambs skinned and tossed about......they all believed they would be in the 'bethel family' until the new system......dedicated their youths to the Org just to be pushed out like last weeks newspaper~
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  Bethelite Elder,

  Thanks for the update. Although they may knock Social Security or pensions as false security, Watchtower offers only empty promises of "deliverance soon", which is really... no security at all. On the administrative end, it's all smoke and mirrors to trick the sheeples into thinking they have nothing to worry about since Bethel will making "loving provisions" for their welfare, until sky-daddy fixes everything very soon. They use religious loopholes in the laws (the signed "Vow of Poverty and Obedience") and their "top floor" legal department to cover their asses and assets. A Bethelite won't learn about the game until they're out the door. And as they're leaving everyone promises them that "Jehovah will support, bless, and care for them. Just rely on Jehovah." Well, I'll tell you right now... Jehovah isn't hiring, he won't pay your medical bills. For the lucky, some connections may come through. For the unlucky, you're stuck with health problems, no references, no money, no real skills.

  That "Vow of Poverty and Obedience", I think it is actually called, is their signed warrent to abuse the blinded. The promises Watchtower makes aren't in black and white, it's all in shifting verbage that really amounts to nothing. But the vow, that's very clearly worded on what the person is under oath to do or not do. The "thirty day notice", is the other trick up their sleeve. Even when they ask/tell someone to leave, they are told to put in their "thirty day notice". Under the right circumstances, such as injuries or health problems, I believe that if someone got a good outside attorney before they write and sign such a paper, they would have a strong case for damage$. However, I do know of at least one case (no not me) where someone was "asked/told" to leave and they appeared unwilling, the overseer was asked to write up a report, enumerating any errors or failures on the persons part to warrant dismissal. I assume that would be ammo in case the person had tried to create problems for "mother".

  "So then they just expect you to go and get help from the state, especially if you can't work due to health reasons."

  I don't know how to put this gently, but they don't give a rat's ass what happens to you once you turn in your keys and have gone outside the lift-arm gates. If you didn't have enough PEA or AEA to cover the last of your bills, they'll notify you how much more money you need to send to them. As far as work, health, or anything material, Jehovah will take care of you. That's what they really believe.

  As I've said before, I knew lots of great people in Bethel. I believed it was a great privilege to work there for Jehovah and his Kingdom interests. But I got enough glimpses behind the curtain to realize that it wasn't a "Family" and it wasn't a "privilege". It is a "corporation" and I was "cheap, naive labor".

  B.E., I'm sending a PM.

  B the X
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  besty

  be cool to get a copy of that Vow paperwork
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  Lost-In-Translation

  I personally know two couples that were asked to leave Bethel.

  1. First couple had to leave after the husband injured his back while at work in the Factory. After trying to deal with the pain he and his wife were asked to leave. No provisions were provided to assist him with his medical condition. The husband became inactive after leaving due to all the stress from having to live life outside Bethel. To this day he remains angry for all the pain and suffering he and his wife have had to experience.

  2. The second couple were asked to leave after the medical department discovered that the wife had a defect in her spine. As is the case - the husband came to Bethel at 19 years of age and spent 15 years serving at Bethel. Now due to his wife having an undetected defect they were out. The brother had no marketable skills since in the real world you have to be certified or have a license to do what he did at Bethel. They attempted to stay in the New York area for a while - but the brother could only obtain a low-paying job. A low-wage job in New York City is not ideal to support a family. He ended up moving into the in-laws home since they could not afford rent. They then moved out of the state to an area where the cost of living is cheaper.

  It does not surprise me that a GB member would frame Social Security and Pensions as something undesireable. They want to make sure that the remaining Bethel members do not join the growing chorus of governmental decisions that the Watchtower should take care of Bethel workers after they dedicate the best years of their lives in Bethel service. I'm sure the GB member wants to make it seem that it is a lack of faith to expect any financial security. The WTBS uses the Bible to justify their administrative decisions - which ultimately is about money. It is easy for the GB members to authorize the dismissal of many since they will always have somewhere to live, nice luxury cars to drive, having Bethelites drive them to and from the airport, and upgraded airline travel.
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  daniel-p

  Now, we all understand that Bethelites do not have any social security, a pension plan, in fact they do not have health insurance. However, in the branch manual it illudes to the fact that after a member has served at Bethel over 5 years, he will be cared for. Also, that was a common thought among Bethelites over the years. However, we see that this has changed or was an unwritten myth all along.

  This seemed to have been their policy up until the early 2000s when the "streamlining" started to take place. But now, it seems they will try to get rid of anyone with a major (or even less major) health problem so long as it doesn't cause a lot of fallout (i.e. taking into consideration how connected the person is, who their relatives are, etc.).