Are they really waiting for us to die? (page 2)

sammielee24

It'slike I said , they can't truly believe it, or they would be pestering you 24/7.

I absolutely disagree. The reason they don't pester you is because a disfellowshipped is not a person/human to them. They aren't going to waste their time on you when you deserted the organization and you know better. They simply resign themselves to the fact that if you want to be, then you can be reinstated, but if you don't want to be, then you will die.

My mother in law tried the guilt trip - 'what will I tell dad after Armeggedon, when he asks where his boys are?'. (ie: one disfellowshipped/one disassociated) This is an emotional stance to get one back in and remain one of the family - if you don't reinstate then we all can't be together. In other words to them it means 'don't you love me enough to come back and be together forever?. I know parents who haven't spoken to their kids for 15 years, after booting them out in their teens...they don't pester them because they insist that you have deserted them and they look at it as you causing them emotional damage and not the other way around. It's sick and twisted - but even for those of us who have family in, Elders, PO's etc, it's really pretty interesting, since shouldn't they in their lofty positions, be especially thoughtful and counsel their own family members to come back in? Not when you consider that even amongst family members holding those positions, their first loyalty is to the rules of shunning and second to shepherding. sammieswife.

mraimondi

you people are so bent on the witnesses all being bent on us dying, wanting to kill us, etc...

its all projection.

for the most part, witnesses just want to see people "repent" - it is offensive enough to be called "unrepentant sinners" - no sense in projecting an additional psychopathy to them, that is likely not mostly true.

some exjws carry the persecution complex with them

dinah

I don't have a persecution complex, mraimondi.

They do think we are walking dead until we "repent"--which doesn't mean anything except agreeing with their craziness. They don't want to see people repent. That would be too easy. You have to repent and get on that treadmill to salvation.

Lucky Calamity

yes, pretty much . . . so they can live with us forever in the "New System," where we will pet lions and lambs and probably everyone will be vegetarians . . . uh huh . . .

iknowall558

Sammielee24 --- "They arent going to waste their time on you when you deserted the organization".

Is it right to say that trying to 'save' someone is to 'waste their time'? I know what you're saying though, ......we deserted the org., so we have put ourselves in line for death, (according to their view). It is twisted thinking like you say, but even those requiring medical or life saving treatment from doctors due to smoking, alcoholism or over eating, aren't ignored or turned away, being told by the doctors that they're wasting their time because they brought it on themselves.

"but even for those of us who have family in, Elders, PO's etc, it's really pretty interesting, since shouldn't they in their lofty positions, be especially thoughtful and counsel their own family members to come back in? Not when you consider that even amongst family members holding those positions, their first loyalty is to the rules of shunning and second to shepherding."

This is why, as was mentioned, the real natural affection is not present. The elders/GB rules require that upon visiting a DA/DF person, ONCE A YEAR WILL SUFFICE. Where is the urgency in that?

iknowall558

mraimondi ----- My husband, while being grilled at his JC, in front of three COs, three elders, and two witnesses testifying against him (one of which was his own brother) -- eight in total, was told by them in frustration ..........."You might as well tell us what we want to know, because if Armageddon comes, you know you've had it."

Firstly, this is most definitely projection on their part. They were dangling this threat of death over him in the hope he would give them the information they wanted. I think any normal thinking person would agree that this was a terrible thing to say. They didn't want my husband to "repent", they wanted the 'concrete' evidence to DF him for the second time. This was his appeal committee. This was his brothers second time testifying against him. My husband had a different point of view........that's all. As far as they were concerned, Jehovah was gonna kill him for this, and as was mentioned they had already emotionally detatched themselves from him........even his one and only brother.

This ability to 'disconnect' from loved ones shows a coldness of heart, and makes you question whether their love/affection for you was genuine in the first place. My hubby, while waiting for the committee to decide their verdict, overheard his brother say,..." I hope this doesn't take too long, I've got an office to clean...."

My hubby was about to be 'sentenced to death'. He was gonna walk the 'green mile' so to speak, and his brother wanted to make sure all his work committments were in order. That's how sad he was..................So does he really believe it? Why wasn't he distraught?

dozy

Despite Jesus illustration of the shepherd who left the 99 sheep to look for the one who strayed , JWs are generally not interested in dfd JWs or faders , regarding them as people who have renounced their faith & have made “their own decision.” Very little effort is made to shepherd. Franz relates cases of elderly sisters who stopped going to meetings and who weren’t contacted for five years until an accusation was made against them and a judicial committee was hastily formed. I’ve seen similar cases myself – sadly , I’ve been as guilty as others when I was a JW.

Although in theory DF ones should be contacted annually by the elders , in practice congs only do it when the WTS writes to them , usually on a 5 or 10 yearly basis. For the last effort (in 2003) , I was an elder & the BOE somewhat half-heartedly went through the list of faders & df ones in our territory. Most were culled by this initial process (“so & so told me a couple of years ago that he wasn’t interested” , “so and so is a bit critical” , “I think she moved away last year didn’t she? – I haven’t seen her around town” etc) – those that were left over were assigned to pairs of elders. But there wasn’t any follow up by the body & I reckon only ½ the people even got called on. One person ( a 16 year old daughter of an existing witness who had stopped going to the meetings) came to the Memorial & we told the CO , so the whole process was judged a success on that basis!

I personally have been shunned by my own family who will even cross the road to avoid speaking to me , even though I’m not df’d or da’d. Yet they will drive hundreds of miles monthly to deliver magazines to strangers & spend a huge amount of time & effort in learning foreign languages. Sadly they are as much victims of an unchristian system as I was.

carla

mraimondi, you must be terribly ignorant of jw literature, here are just a few quotes about jw's believing they and they alone have any 'scriptural hope' (not a guarantee) of surviving. Take a listen to this disgusting talk and then tell me they don't wait for the death of 99% of the population and that includes family & spouses who are non believers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwA9KX5WJTM. I suggest you research all the times the wt has outright said or implied that one be a jw to survive and be part of their fictional paradise earth.

thanks to jwfacts.com for the following-

"Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep. 1 p.19

Is it presumptuous of Jehovah's Witnesses to point out that they alone have God's backing? Actually, no more so than when the Israelites in Egypt claimed to have God's backing in spite of the Egyptians' belief, or when the first-century Christians claimed to have God's backing to the exclusion of Jewish religionists." Watchtower 2001 June 1 p.16

The Watchtower 1993 October 1 p.19 went as far as to state that there are billions in line for destruction.

billions

perish during the great tribulation

iknowall558

Dozy ---- Very little effort is made to shepherd. .

Although in theory DF ones should be contacted annually by the elders , in practice congs only do it when the WTS writes to them , usually on a 5 or 10 yearly basis.

Its sad but true that this is the case in most congregations. This applies to those both in and out of the org. It's like you said at the end of your post, it's evidence of being a victim of an unchristian system.

This is so far removed from how Jesus conducted himself toward people. He never needed prompted. He never did anything out of 'duty' or to keep the paperwork tidy.

It's not love that keeps the wheels of the org. turning, it's the rules. The Rules are above everything. The Bible says that Love is above all.

When the underlying attitude is 'the rules RULE!'........then where is the flexibility? Enforcing regulations means more than anything in the org. Jesus publicly condemned the Pharisees for this lack of compassion. They were anal as a group, and so are the JWs. Sorry for offending anyone, but its true. They are the spiritual equivalent of a 'jobsworth'.

I don't think 'real love', - 'Jesus love', comes naturally to a witness because the 'rules' get in the way. So when someone is DF/DA, the 'love' and longing for that person is overshadowed by the thought that -- "They have broken the RULES".

carla --- good quotes.

carla

I think people underestimate the psychological impact of living with or having jw relatives who truly believe all non jw's are doomed and won't be 'with them in the new system'. Intellectually you can dismiss it at as folly and know they are nuts but your heart gives pangs of pain at times when you remember that your loved one actually looks forward to the day you, your kids, all family, neighbors and all who are not jw's deserve the jw view that will be poofed out of existence for not believing a few twisted men in NY.

I can only wonder about the conversations during fs when they get going about their fictional 'new system' and they are busy picking out homes they want, going on about how wonderful it will all be and what my jw must think when none of his family or spouse will be there with him? does he have some fantasy new family in mind or what? sometimes he has said that his being a jw will save those he loves, sigh, why don't jw's know their own literature?

Are they really waiting for us to die?

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