by Open mind 16 Replies latest members private
Lesson one: One bottle of wine is the ideal dose for reducing inhibitions but leaving enough brain cells for lucid conversation.
Lesson two: Make sure the kids aren't around.
Lesson three: Make sure the vibe feels good.
Lesson four: Proceed with caution.
Just got done confiding in my wife that MAYBE Jesus' parable was just a parable.
She's still chewing on it.
Wish me luck.
om
well DAMM.......how did it go?!?!?!?!..........give dude.........oompa
love your lesson guide btw....dead on
Wow, good luck with that!
Prepare for a range of possible outcomes! It's important to ressure her that everything is still the same between you. When I first spoke to my husband it was implied that if I could "leave Jehovah" I could leave him too. It took a while for the trust to return.
Good luck.
Other highlights:
Do Paul's words really seem "God breathed" to you? Ithis, Ithat. I do not permit a woman to teach. I tell you to remove the wicked man... I, I, I?
How does that compare to Jebus? err... Jesus? He didn't dare say squat without making sure Daddy got the cred. So where does Paul get off writing the way he did? Hmmm....maybe it was actually just letters from one high-control 1st century church missionary to various congregations?
And....if that's the case, then what he said about gays can be taken with a grain of salt, just like what he said about women not being allowed to teach. (My oldest brother, DFed, is gay, through and through)
I also hit on the complete ban on independent thought. Disagreeing with ANYTHING that is official WT dogma. Doesn't that show a WEAKNESS in your argument? If your argument is strong, bring on the counter-agruments and let the truth fall where it may. Why can't Brother X, who was raised Catholic, say he really believes the Trinity? My wife and I don't believe that's what the Bible teaches and whoever is right, we'll find out in the New Order and a loving God isn't going to wack any of us for sincerely getting it wrong.
Then we ran out of wine.
Overall, a good night's work.
om
Good. Sounds like your conversation had very strong elements that could lead the correct direction for her in time.
Time is the crucial part of the picture, IMHO. When my wife and I [together] began to read Ray's books, time had already seasoned us to fertility in accepting that we had been duped. His words were just the key that unlocked our ability to put it all together and start thinking for ourselves. His books were a godsend - but it was the timing that made all the difference. I honestly believe if we had read them 20 years earlier, we might not have left. Not enough internal conflict had occurred at that point.
So, your wife might be ready - or maybe not. But she will not/ cannot dislodge the conversation. It will be part of her eventual decision about the 'truth'. I hope that is soon.
Keep the wine flowing, and the conversation. Good luck.
Jeff
Hey Jeff, Oompa, Mickey & Password:
Thanks for the replies.
Just a little clarification on the trinity topic. I made the point that the Bible isn't 100% clear on this issue, IMO. We're both born-in JWs so the Trinity sounds dumb to us on a gut level. But, if we're honest, there's at least a handfull of scriptures that JWs have to explain around that at first reading sound like Jesus is God. Then, there's a TON of scriptures that make it sound like Jesus is not God. Bottom line: The Bible isn't very clear on this issue. Either the Bible isn't 100% inspired or maybe God really doesn't give a flying flip about this issue. Or both plus a little bit more.
om
I agree with Jeff, time is the crucial factor and lots of patience is required. I first talked to my husband a year ago, things were very difficult for us for a couple of months.
Last month he asked if he could "borrow my copy of Crisis of Conscience" and he is over half way through it.
One of the things that made an impact on him early on was that he couldn't acknowledge to himself that the WBTS are false prophets. Logically he knew that was the sensible conclusion based upon facts but I think that was the thing that allowed him to consider the possibility that he was under mind control.
Mickey Mouse said:
"It's important to reassure her that everything is still the same between you."
Yep. I let her know that if I was going to leave "The Truth" over doctrinal disagreements, I would have a long time ago. I value family far more than dogma. My loyalty to my DFed older brother underscores that.
She's recently had quite a few run-ins with elders that let her clearly see that Hooly Spirit isn't calling the shots in the JWs.
om
That's fantastic Mickey Mouse!
You know, I wonder if my wife will be able to control herself once the dam of "cognitive dissonance" breaks?
I'm going to try to make sure she doesn't go berserk and throw away family ties unecessarily.
om
