Spike Tassel (Post 94): With all due respect and seriousness, it's not clear, even here on JWN, which "Society" might be meant — some live in Britain, some live in America, others live in other lands. Even if all of us lived in the same general area, each congregation's style is independent enough one from another so that at least some may (apparently) rightly view "Society" as what happened just to them and a few immediate acquaintances. There are, thus, many Societies (incorporated and otherwise) that any of us could have in mind, depending on our individual experience and take. It's best, then, to have a clear, consistent message, in case there's someone less informed than we think (or more, even, as far as that goes) observing whichever discussion is in question. As to a related matter, my name on this board is as follows: first name= Spike; last name= Tassel. My name/ identity is not up for debate, my points of discussion are.
Do Not Say: "The Society Teaches"!
by compound complex 74 Replies latest jw friends
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ninja
pish
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parakeet
Spike: ..... it's not clear, even here on JWN, which "Society" might be meant .....
T-H-E W-A-T-C-H-T-O-W-E-R B-I-B-L-E A-N-D T-R-A-C-T S-O-C-I-E-T-Y , I-N-C.
There's no need, Spike, to pretend you're more dense than you really are. That level of stupidity is indicative of a trouble-making troll.
Go away, troll, back to whatever Society you profess to belong. And don't come back all wide-eyed and innocent to ask, "what's a troll?" You've wasted enough of our time.
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mrsjones5
Spike (post 94), I can see that you have a love of making a mountain out of a molehill. I've been on this board for about 7 years now and I have never seen anyone question what "Society" meant here. Everyone here (excluding you) understands what "Society" means on this board. It's just another word used in jw speak. This a non issue and not really worth pounding my computer keys to talk about.
Geez
Josie
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Spike Tassel
Spike Tassel (Post 104): You may all want to remember the original post to this thread. "JW speak" is the problem, after all.
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undercover
WT 1998 - 3/15 p.19 ..."In order to avoid misunderstandings, Jehovah’s Witnesses try to be careful about how they express themselves. Instead of saying, "the Society teaches," many Witnesses prefer to use such expressions as, "the Bible says" or, "I understand the Bible to teach." In this way they emphasize the personal decision that each Witness has made in accepting Bible teachings and also avoid giving the false impression that Witnesses are somehow bound to the dictates of some religious sect. "
Compare to the Society's qoutes on what baptism means:
*** w89 1/15 13 What Prevents You From Getting Baptized? ***
...for the first of two questions the speaker asks them is: “On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?” Only if the individual answers in the affirmative and also understands that his dedication and baptism identify him as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization can he acceptably undergo water immersion.At first glance the two quotes don't seem to be at odds, but if you study them closer, the contradiction stands out. Per the 98 quote, one is encouraged to not identify the Society as the religious authority of individual JWs but in the 89 quote, to be baptized one must accept the notion that the Society (organization) is directed by God, thus His authority is channeled through the Society.
The quote from 98 would have jived much better with the quotes regarding baptism from 1955 and 1966.
*** w55 7/1 411 Christian Baptism for the New World Society ***
15 A Christian, therefore, cannot be baptized in the name of the one actually doing the immersing or in the name of any man, nor in the name of any organization, but in the name of the Father, the Son and the holy spirit.This shows, among other things, that Christianity is not a denominational affair, that sects have nothing to do with it. “Does the Christ exist divided? Paul was not impaled for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I am thankful I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name.”—1 Cor. 1:13-15, NW.*** w66 10/1 603-4 Serving with Everlasting Life in View ***
15 This is what we mean when we dedicate our lives to Jehovah. We do not dedicate ourselves to a religion, nor to a man, nor to an organization. No, we dedicate ourselves to the Supreme Sovereign of the Universe, our Creator, Jehovah God himself. This makes dedication a very personal relationship between us and Jehovah.If they had stuck with these ideas in baptism, then they could make the 98 statement in truth. But since they've changed baptism from a dedication to God to a dedication to the Society, that quote is nothing but cult manipulation to keep their followers from admitting to the public exactly what they've been trained to do: Rely strictly on the Society for what they believe.
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mrsjones5
Well, Spike, since you seems to have a problem remembering what the topic is originally about here it is:
"WT 1998 - 3/15 p.19 ...
"In order to avoid misunderstandings, Jehovah’s Witnesses try to be careful about how they express themselves. Instead of saying, "the Society teaches," many Witnesses prefer to use such expressions as, "the Bible says" or, "I understand the Bible to teach." In this way they emphasize the personal decision that each Witness has made in accepting Bible teachings and also avoid giving the false impression that Witnesses are somehow bound to the dictates of some religious sect. "
Seems to me that the "Society" wants the rank and file to be careful how they present themselves at the door of a householder or in front of any other non jw. That is the premise. You, Spike, went off topic not me. I just responded to your off topic remark. Don't push your silly crap off on me.
Josie
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BurnTheShips
We've got a live one!
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Mary
Does anyone else get the idea that Spike Tassel is really "Scholar"? The reason I say this is because pseudo-scholar always references posts with numbers, just like Spike Tassel is doing. Coincidence that two JW apologetics are doing this???
In this way they emphasize the personal decision that each Witness has made in accepting Bible teachings and also avoid giving the false impression that Witnesses are somehow bound to the dictates of some religious sect. "
Ya right.....I can't imagine why anyone would get that impression. For god's sake, their own literature clearly states you can't 'understand the bible' without their literature. If that's not being "bound to the dictates of some religious sect", I don't know what is.
Furthermore, not only do we find that people cannot see the Divine Plan in studying the Bible by itself, but we see, also, that if anyone lays the Scripture Studies aside, even after he has used them, after he has become familiar with them, after he has read them for ten years - if he lays them aside and ignores them and goes to the Bible alone, though he has understood his Bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness. On the other hand, if he had merely read the Scripture Studies with their references, and had not read a page of the Bible, as such, he would be in the light at the end of the two years, because he would have the light of the Scriptures. (The Watchtower; 9/15/1910; pp. 298)
But if each of us were left to himself just because he has a copy of the Bible and were to direct his movements independently as he thought he understood the Word, what? It is likely, or possible, that there would be a great deal of confusion or working in competition among us. Hence, besides individually possessing God’s Word, we need a theocratic organization. Yes, besides having God’s spirit of illumination, a Christian needs Jehovah’s theocratic organization in order to understand the Bible. (The Watchtower; 6/15/1951; pp. 375)
The world is full of Bibles, which Book contains the commandments of God. Why, then, do the people not know which way to go? Because they do not also have the teaching or law of the mother, which is light. Jehovah God has provided his holy written Word for all mankind and it contains all the information that is needed for men in taking a course leading to life. But God has not arranged for that Word to speak independently or to shine forth life-giving truths by itself. His Word says: "Light is sown for the righteous." (Ps. 97:11) It is through his organization that God provides this light that the proverb says is the teaching or law of the mother. If we are to walk in the light of truth we must recognize not only Jehovah God as our Father but his organization as our mother. (The Watchtower; 5/1/1957; pp. 274)
Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible. For this reason the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah’s visible organization in mind. (The Watchtower; 10/1/1967; pp. 587)
Only this organization functions for Jehovah’s purpose and to his praise. To it alone God’s Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book. (The Watchtower; 7/1/1973; pp. 402)
They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such ‘Bible reading,’ they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom’s clergy were teaching 100 years ago,... (The Watchtower; 8/15/1981; pp. 29)
No matter where we may live on earth, God’s Word continues to serve as a light to our path and a lamp to our roadway as to our conduct and beliefs. (Ps. 119:105) But Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do. (The Watchtower; 12/1/1981; pp. 27)
We have the opportunity to show love for our brothers who take the lead in the congregation or in connection with Jehovah’s visible organization worldwide. This includes being loyal to "the faithful and discreet slave." (Matthew 24:45-47) Let us face the fact that no matter how much Bible reading we have done, we would never have learned the truth on our own. (The Watchtower; 12/1/1990; pp. 19)
Channel to understanding the Bible... All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah’s channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave. (The Watchtower; 10/1/1994; pp. 8)
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Spike Tassel
There are certainly householders and non JWs here on the board, and even if there weren't, imperfect humans generally will be misunderstood if there is any way to be, which is like all the time on here especially because relationships take time, which is not what generally happens here. I have never strayed from the thrust of the topic on this thread. I have simply given an increasing number of reasons why I concur.