The Problem I have with 'Christians', 'Muslims',and 'Jews'. Of ALL varieties.

by ThomasCovenant 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  ThomasCovenant

  Hi

  Abraham was prepared to cut the throat of his son because 'God' told him to.

  Once you accept that as perfectly natural and normal you can accept anything. Absolutely anything. No questions asked.

  Some accuse Witnesses of being sneaky and underhanded. No, they are just doing what they think is pleasing to their rendition of 'God'. Theirs nowt wrong with that, is there?

  Some people accuse Muslim fanatics who behead and stone people as being, well, fanatics. No, they are only doing what they think is pleasing to 'God'. There's nowt wrong with that, surely?

  If a person tried to justify rape and child abuse as there way of pleasing their 'God' how can you argue against that?

  What's good enough for Abe is good enough for me. Isn't it?

  Yesterday I heard a commotion going on at my neighbours. I decided to investigate.

  Imagine my surprise as I entered the house to find my mate Pete trying to cut his eighteen year old son's head off with the bread knife.

  I was a little shocked to say the least. But Pete reassured me that it was all ok as a voice inside his head told him to do it as a gesture of goodwill.

  Luckily the toast popped out of the toaster, like in Pulp Fiction, just as Pete, with the knife high above his head and the steel glinting in the setting sun was about to bring it down across the taut neck of the terrified teenager.

  This seemed to bring Pete round a little and he decided to eat the toast instead of butchering his child.

  I quietly left the house and ummed and ahhed over whether I should report Pete to the police and hopefully testify in court against him so that he can be locked away in a high security mental institute for the criminally insane for the rest of his natural life. I couldn't decide whether to call from a public call box or not.

  Instead I decided to follow in his footsteps.

  Abraham is viewed as a good guy, I think, by Christians, Muslims and Jews alike.

  Am I wrong to find it hard to respect Pete, Abraham, Christians, Muslims and Jews?

  Praise Jah you people.

  Thomas Covenant
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  Locutus of Borg

  About 13 years ago, in my final stages of leaving the Kult (tm) for the second and final time I used that very same easoning on my "True Believer" (tm) father. In the same analogy I also portrayed Samson as the first suicide bomber.

  For the only time in my life I heard fear in his voice as his brain tried to reconcile the TRUTH with "The Truth" (tm).

  He hung up on me. He hasn't talked to me since.
• 

  Caedes

  It is exactly this kind of moral ambiguity vacuum in the bible that makes the so called "objective" morality of the bible claimed by some fundamentalists a very weak argument.
• 

  reniaa

  hmmm samson the suicide bomber? imprisonned, tortured and had his eyes gauged out finally he gets to be paraded amongst his tormenters as a dancing bear on a string and in that moment takes many with him... I can see the comparison ^^

  Abraham was willing to kill his son, yes his faith in God was that total and it's harsh but the truth is it wasn't a toaster that stopped him but God himself. Belief in things makes us do hard choices when we goto war and kill we face that same choice. the men you are killing are somebodies brother son, uncle they have believed their leaders like you believe yours that death of the enemy is the final solution.

  When America dropped two nuclear bombs they wiped the population of two whole towns thousands of people wiped out in the blink of an eye, men, women, babies and children they probs saved thousands in a continued war but they killed thousands to do it. I do not see man having a better solution than God I only trust that God's is more just.

  Reniaa
• 

  OnTheWayOut

  God is not more just. The same God of Abraham dropped 40 days and nights of water on the earth to wipe it out entirely. Even the animals.

  God blighted two cities in the book of Genesis.
  
  WTS tells of God poised to wipe out the entire world again (except for 0.1% of the population that believes it would happen in 1914, 1915, 1925, 1940's, 1975, within a literal generation of 1914, in the 20th century, any minute now).

  Back in the days of the Exodus and Judges, inspiration was from writing of conquests similar to suicide bombings and terrorist acts of today.
  Supposedly taking a city for no other reason than "they serve foreign gods" or killing entire cultures and saving the virgin daughters as baby-makers- this is worse than any jihad today.
• 

  reniaa

  Worse than today? certainly when we press a button we don't have to see the consequences, we have made killing very clinical and less hands on. In many cases we sit back in our luxury houses eating food farmed in poverty in other countries and wearing clothes made in sweatshops in other countries thinking how good and wholesome we are?

  I'm sure God knew the moment of death for everyone he has had to give it too and doesn't have the luxury to remove himself from accountability.

  I trust in God I also know when it comes to laws the Jews were unique amongst the tribes around them, in having the only God that banned child sacrifice in those times. What God asked of Abraham was anormal thing in those times what was not normal was that he stopped him.

  Jesus's words indicate a necessity and to be honest given our capacity to kill now I can see we are going that way.

  Matthew 24:22 (New International Version)

  22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

  Reniaa
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  cameo-d

  I do not see man having a better solution than God I only trust that God's is more just.

  Reniaa

  There is good reason to believe that man created laws because he felt sky daddy was unjust!

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/177845/1/Did-Man-Create-Laws-Because-God-Was-Unjust
• 

  ThomasCovenant

  Thanks for the replies.

  Reniaa said, and I admire her for saying it as it is,

  'Abraham was willing to kill his son, yes his faith in God was that total'

  but thats my point exactly. Thank you.

  It follows, it seems to me, that a Christian, Muslim, Jew could equally say;

  'Abraham was willing to .............torture, rape, pillage, abuse, enslave..........his son, yes his faith in God was that total' (Let the reader fill in whatever blanks he wants)

  Or

  'Thomas Covenant was willing to .......torture, rape, pillage, abuse, enslave, kill............other people, yes his faith in God was that total'. ( Let the reader fill in whatever blanks he wants)

  The more total your faith in the God of Abraham the more you should be willing to do.

  Nothing will be off limits. No act of depravity, if told to do so by 'God', would be disallowed.

  Am I missing something?

  Thomas Covenant
• 

  ThomasCovenant

  Thanks for the replies.

  Reniaa said, and I admire her for saying it as it is,

  'Abraham was willing to kill his son, yes his faith in God was that total'

  but thats my point exactly. Thank you.

  It follows, it seems to me, that a Christian, Muslim, Jew could equally say;

  'Abraham was willing to .............torture, rape, pillage, abuse, enslave..........his son, yes his faith in God was that total' (Let the reader fill in whatever blanks he wants)

  Or

  'Thomas Covenant was willing to .......torture, rape, pillage, abuse, enslave, kill............other people, yes his faith in God was that total'. ( Let the reader fill in whatever blanks he wants)

  The more total your faith in the God of Abraham the more you should be willing to do.

  Nothing will be off limits. No act of depravity, if told to do so by 'God', would be disallowed.

  Am I missing something?

  Thomas Covenant
• 

  mindmelda

  Christianity is supposed to have put all that OT stuff behind them, as they are now humans with whom God is reconciled (if they recognize that crucial difference and what it means...a good many do not, it seems). Before the Savior, mankind, even the Jews, were in an adversarial position with God.

  God dealt with even the Jews harshly for that reason. They had a truce of sorts with God, as long as they kept his conditions, but were not reconciled to him as Christians have opportunity to be because of accepting the Savior.

  It is a different relationship, so Christians who still behave in that OT manner towards God, that he is their enemy who demands the sacrifices and blood of a conquering divine being, have not realized their relationship has a different basis. You treat friends differently than enemies, family different than strangers.

  Also, if you're not a believer in God, it works pretty well as a metaphor for the idea that the concept of God evolves with us, the more peaceful and cooperative we are, so our deities become.