OC, thanks for clarifying. Just wanted to be sure.
I don't know much about Bergman. A few other posters here have mentioned he has credibility problems.
Awake! Quotes a Well-Known ex-JW Apostate in Support of Their Beliefs!?!
by Oubliette 41 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Oubliette
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OrphanCrow
Oubliette: I don't know much about Bergman. A few other posters here have mentioned he has credibility problems.
Now that I have read a couple of his other papers, I agree with those other posters.
I didn't know much about him until you posted those links. I had read his material that related to the JWs but knew nothing else about him.
His educational list looks impressive, but I have a bit of difficulty evaluating his education because of the differences between Canadian and US degree requirements. For example, a Phd in the US is sometimes less than, or equal to a Masters degree in Canada.
As to the question you asked earlier about why the WTS would use Bergman in their Awake! article, I think that you have revealed another one of those 'cracks' that show there is more behind the WTS than we are aware of.
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EdenOne
Sloppy research from the Writing Department? After all, don't they go to great lengths to delete DF'd people from pictures that were part of publications?
Eden
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sir82
Sloppy research from the Writing Department? After all, don't they go to great lengths to delete DF'd people from pictures that were part of publications?
Gleefully turning the knife in the back, extending the punishment toward "one of their own" who had the temerity to "fall away"? They're all over that.
Spend an extra few hours reading context, determining nuance, researching background & qualifications of those they quote? Meh, who cares? Too much work. Is the stuff between the quote marks accurate - if so, then just run it.
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millie210
OrphanCrow
For example, a Phd in the US is sometimes less than, or equal to a Masters degree in Canada.I was not aware of that OrphanCrow, could you provide a link so I could read about the distinctions?
Thanks,
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OrphanCrow
Bergman's bio reveals where he got his "Dr." status for biology from.
Ph.D. in human biology, Columbia Pacific University, San Rafael, California, 1992
Here is a link to evaluate how credible that "Dr." in front of his name is:
http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/News/cpu.html
CPU, founded in 1978, was a private, nonaccredited correspondence school that offered programs leading to bachelors, masters, and doctorate-level "degrees" in various subjects.
Private postsecondary schools are regulated by the California Bureau of Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education, which approves schools to operate and ensures that training is relevant and practical. In 1996, after conducting a qualitative review and assessment of CPU's degree-granting programs, the bureau's predecessor agency (Council for Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education) denied CPU's application for licensure. On June 10, 1997, this denial was upheld by an independent administrative law judge who concluded that CPU had: (a) awarded excessive credit for prior experiential learning to many students; (b) failed to employ duly qualified faculty; and (c) failed to meet various requirements for issuing Ph.D. degrees. When CPU continued to operate without legal approval, the California Attorney General sought an injunction.For example, a Phd in the US is sometimes less than, or equal to a Masters degree in Canada
millie: I was not aware of that OrphanCrow, could you provide a link so I could read about the distinctions?
Thanks,Millie, I can't pull out a link on that one, at least not right now - I have never researched it online. All I can speak from is my own experience.
At the time that I graduated with a 4 year undergraduate degree in Fine Arts from a Canadian university, a BFA (honors), I could have qualified for a Phd program at many universities in US with it and skipped what we call Graduate work in Canada - a Masters degree. That is, if I had wanted to earn a Phd in Art History and fast track my way into teaching art history.
The difference lies, I believe, not within the Canadian system of degree definitions, but rather within the US system. A university accreditation in Canada is easier to control, and there is less variation in degrees between universities, because we are really small compared to the States - in the US, it appears like there is a wide range of what can be called a university with wide variations in degree requirements.
There seems to be a lot of 'popcorn box' degrees available in the States. And it looks like the esteemed 'Dr.' Bergman has acquired one of those 'Dr.' degrees from a correspondence school that lost its licence.
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under the radar
Hi Oubliette,
Like OrphanCrow, I never said or even implied that you thought Bergman was a reliable source, much less that you were endorsing him. I'm no scientist, but even I can see that some of his published papers don't measure up to what might be expected of someone with his credentials. I think he's blown a fuse or two somewhere along the road.
For the record, I thought I was endorsing your point about the Society's foolishness in citing him as an "authority." Not only is he a well-known ex-JW and apostate, he's also a fruit loop, as far as I'm concerned.
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Oubliette
UTR: For the record, I thought I was endorsing your point about the Society's foolishness in citing him as an "authority." Not only is he a well-known ex-JW and apostate, he's also a fruit loop, as far as I'm concerned.
That's what I thought. Again, I just wanted clarity.
Everyone's point about Bergman's "qualifications" being questionable only emphasize the strangeness of the WTBTS using him as a source!
They're really scraping the bottom of the barrel if they have to use apostates with iffy credentials to "validate" their "science articles."
Let's review: It's a cult!
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Oubliette
Orphan Crow, I appreciate your comments about Bergman's "credentials."
That being said, and we are getting a bit off topic (but only a bit), obviously there are illegitimate diploma mills in the U.S., but a PhD program at a University of California or equivalent is a very rigorous undertaking.
I'm currently looking at a PhD in Learning Sciences from the University of Indiana. Here's the program:
Major (36 cr.)
- P544 Applied Cognition and Learning Strategies (3 cr.)
- P572 Introduction to the Learning Sciences (3 cr.)
- Other learning sciences courses (12–15 cr.). Courses should include a minimum of 6 credit hours of course work on theory and 3 credit hours of course work on design. These courses and the inquiry linkage course taken together must include a minimum of 6 credit hours at the 600-level.
- Early Inquiry Experience
- P573 Learning Sciences Apprenticeship (12–15 cr.). Apprenticeship may be taken for 1-3 credit hours each semester. During one semester, you must carry out an independent research project as your early inquiry experience. The resulting research report must be read and approved by your advisory committee.
- Inquiry Linkage (3 cr.)
- Additional learning sciences course
Inquiry (15 cr.)
- Y521 Methodological Approaches to Educational Inquiry (3 cr.)
- Additional approved course inquiry courses (6 cr.)
- Inquiry methodology electives (6 cr.)
Minor (12 cr.)
The minor must contribute to the integrity of the program. Specific course requirements are under the direction of the minor department. Typical minors include psychology, sociology, special education, curriculum and instruction (e.g., mathematics education, science education, arts education), instructional systems technology, linguistics, informatics, cognitive science, or computer science
Dissertation (15 cr.)- P795 Dissertation Proposal Preparation (3 cr.)
- P799 Doctoral Thesis in Learning Sciences (12 cr.)
If you skip the minor, it's still 66 semester credits. For a working adult, that would take approximately four years to complete. This is more than twice the credits required of my MAED program from a WASC accredited university in the state in which I live.
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Phizzy
I always thought Bergman was just short of being a David Icke.
For the W.T to use him is either crass stupidity, or what I have suspected for a long time, that the boys in the Writing Department have a competition going to see who can slip through the most ludicrous stuff.
Of course, the lazy, uneducated G.B will never pick up on it, so the guy who does what we see above picks up this Month's prize for publishing B.S.
We used to have a similar competition in my K.H, where you would give what seemed to be a correct, and even erudite, answer, that was total rubbish, I won a few times, but we had one Champion who was beyond brilliant.
I am amazed he is still a JW.