I am so tempted lol
but his voice is so boring, weird his cam broke for the second installment
Bible Jim is at it again! (#2 Series of Bible Jim dismantling the false belief system of Jehovah Witnesses)
by stronglogos 22 Replies latest watchtower bible
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designs
One of Jim's buddies was 'preaching' there version of the Gospel at the Beach in Laguna Ca.. Explaining how they should accept Jesus or Else burn in Hell for all eternity.
Could you pass the Sun Bloc 3000 please!
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Black Sheep
weird his cam broke for the second installment
Musta bean daemons
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reniaa
Well I watched the first two, Jim ignores his own rules which he has applied for others.
first he compares three scriptures.
Exodus 33:20 (New International Version)
20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."
- Exodus 33:11
- And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.
- Deuteronomy 34:10
- And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the Lord knew face to face.
so is God lying?
this is where context is very important and a full knowledge of the bible especially God talking to those on earth
here is the very first appearance of God too moses...
Exodus 3:2-7 (New International Version)
2 There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up. 3 So Moses thought, "I will go over and see this strange sight—why the bush does not burn up."
4 When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, "Moses! Moses!" And Moses said, "Here I am."
5 "Do not come any closer," God said. "Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground." 6 Then he said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob." At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God.
7 The LORD said, "I have indeed seen the misery of my people in Egypt. I have heard them crying out because of their slave drivers, and I am concerned about their suffering.
So here we have God talking to moses from a flaming bush and yet at the beginning it clearly talks about angel of God being in the flames! is it contradicting itself? further investigation will show angels/messengers of God often appear to men representing god and speaking in the first person as God this is not unusual. The three men that visited abraham one whom he argued with to stop the destruction of sodom in the first person as if to God, where also angels.
now lets look at face to face in exodus in full context...
Exodus 33:8-11 (New International Version)
8 And whenever Moses went out to the tent, all the people rose and stood at the entrances to their tents, watching Moses until he entered the tent. 9 As Moses went into the tent, the pillar of cloud would come down and stay at the entrance, while the LORD spoke with Moses. 10 Whenever the people saw the pillar of cloud standing at the entrance to the tent, they all stood and worshiped, each at the entrance to his tent. 11 The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent.
this is clear moses goes to the tent and speaks to Jehovah face to face.....
Numbers 7:89 (New International Version)
89 When Moses entered the Tent of Meeting to speak with the LORD, he heard the voice speaking to him from between the two cherubim above the atonement cover on the ark of the Testimony. And he spoke with him.
so here in numbers it describes it in more detail from inside. Moses goes into the tent to talk to God and he sees god? NO he hears God's voice from above specificully between two cherubim. So we are talking face to face as with god as in a conversation not literally seeing a face.
this explains why moses actually later in the same chapter after having apparently already seen God face to face he asks to see more of God and here we get God saying....
exodus 33:18 Then Moses said, "Now show me your glory."
19 And the LORD said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."
21 Then the LORD said, "There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen."
And God takes it to mean face and is clear on this but he does let him see his back. note singular not threesome in all this.
Reniaa
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mraimondi
this moron needs to learn how to use a camera. so far he has a 2/3 failure rate for filming JWs.
either that, or he is a fucking liar. then again, anyone who believes in the tripe he does...
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reniaa
hi again
bible jim talks on this scripture next which I always find weird for trinitarians to use this as some sort of proof text that Jesus is god.
John 14:9 (New International Version)
9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
because it actually disproves their own doctrine..note that he talks on Father not God.
to show you the problem concerning their doctrine with this scripture look at this trinitarian fomula from their own hand on the nature of triune God.
it very clearly says the son is not the father so saying Jesus is saying "he who has seen the son has seen the father" as a proof text of God is not proof of trinity at all unless you are dividing the father up into 3 and not God.
Reniaa
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isaacaustin
not comepletly sound reasoning Reniaa...it obviously disproves modalism. However, they are both part of the same being, and one being the exact representation, or imprint of the other...showing their perfect operation as one flesh...which is what the trinity, or tri-unity is
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reniaa
Hi isaac
basically you are resorting to the Jw argument which is that they are just very very alike but not the same being/person. but you certainly cannot use it as proof text as Jesus being God because he can quite easily be exactly like his father and not be God. In fact God doesn't even come into this scripture for either of us since we both use the he is exactly like his father argument.
Reniaa
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isaacaustin
reniaa:
Hi isaac
basically you are resorting to the Jw argument which is that they are just very very alike but not the same being/person. but you certainly cannot use it as proof text as Jesus being God because he can quite easily be exactly like his father and not be God. In fact God doesn't even come into this scripture for either of us since we both use the he is exactly like his father argument.
My reply:
Not a very good verse to use to show the Son as God- neither proves or disproves. Only disproves modalism- the Father and Son being the same person.
