Studying "What Does the Bible Really Teach?" (page 3)

Chalam

That link is very good! What Does The Bible Really Teach?

All the best,

Stephen

Well, we got into chapter 2 today. I felt like I really needed to back off and go with the flow a bit. I did ask her, though, who originally discovered that YHWH's name is Jehovah? She didn't know and said she'd check on it. All in all, I'd say it went smoothly.

homeschool

I received a phonecall from sis yesterday. She said "remember the other day when you asked me about Jehovah's name & who first said it?" "oh, sure, I remember"....Ready for this??....she said "Eve. Eve is the first one who used Jehovah's name." I was so shocked that was her answer, and I didn't want to argue, so I left it at that. When I told my husband, he started laughing out of shock and said 'are you $hitting me? Does she know what you were asking her?'

So I sent her a text message that said " I think you misunderstood my question...who was it that first discovered that YHWH translated to Jehovah?" The answer to this question, I believe though not positive, is a Spanish man who was never a jw and who never became a jw. I want her to find this answer.

We have our study tomorrow and I'm going over chapter 3. Ya know, this is something I was always kind of scared of....starting a study again with a jw and finding out that it actually IS the truth and realizing my wicked ways. Seriously, the more I'm delving into my research and study, the more I do not feel scared that I will realize it is the troof. Its not. Quite simply, it's just not.

homeschool

Do you think I'm a moron for studying? just curious...

homeschool

Finished up Chapter 2 yesterday. Almost every question was impossible to answer without saying "well, according to this book..."

The answers were so biased! I did good, going with the flow. But somehow (and thankfully), she brought up the proper use Jehovah's name again...and whaddya know- I'd gone to the library yesterday & told her about it. "Sis, its really wild because I went to the library today & hit the encyclopedia section. I checked out about ten different books, and all but one of them said that "Jehovah" is artificial and false. " She said "Well, what do they suggest then?" "They all said the true form of YHWH is YaWeh, and that "jehovah" was made up & realized to be a false rendering, but that since it had gotten to be well known, that's the version people choose to use" (But it's a false rendering! JW's have never seemed to be concerned with what the "popular" thing to do is.)

She said she wasnt familiar with any of that info and that she'd have to go to the library to check it out herself. I don't know if she actually will. I certainly hope she will, considering the pile of brochures and booklets and books she's brought ME to "study" recently.

Can anyone post this link so people can click on it? http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/3719/1/Bad-Defensive-Arguments

There was a thread on here from about 8 years ago that discusses whether Isaiah mysteriously knew the earth was a globe, when supposedly everybody else believed the earth was flat. Firstly, I googled this...it appears that many people back then DID recognize the earth was a globe. Secondly, take a beach ball and stick it next to a pizza. Which one would you say is a "globe" or "round" and which one would you call a "circle"? Isaiah wasn't showing the earth was a globe. He said it's a circle. Like a pizza.

The subject of prophecies that came true were touchy. I said that I googled all the different prophecies, but there were pages and pages of pro-Christian and anti-Christian opinions. Of COURSE it Happened!!! or Of COURSE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!! I said "I want to find the actual scientist or person who discovered all this to tell me their findings, and that's going to take some time for me to find. But I'm willing to search!" she was okay with this.

We were discussing why the Bible is unique, and she asked me to read 2 Timothy 3:16. After reading it, she said "you have a funny look on your face" My question...doesn't every single religious book in effect say that their book is inspired, good for teaching, for reproving, and for setting things straight? How is that unique? One of my best friends is Hindu, so I just sent her an email with some questions, including:

do their religious books show mistakes made by the writers ?

Were there many writers that spanned over thousands of years?

Were there prophecies that came true?

....till next Monday...

isaacaustin

homeschool, you are doing an awesome job. Even if you see no visilbe results you never know what seeds you are planting.

Tuesday

Hey there Homeschool...

There was a thread on here from about 8 years ago that discusses whether Isaiah mysteriously knew the earth was a globe, when supposedly everybody else believed the earth was flat. Firstly, I googled this...it appears that many people back then DID recognize the earth was a globe. Secondly, take a beach ball and stick it next to a pizza. Which one would you say is a "globe" or "round" and which one would you call a "circle"? Isaiah wasn't showing the earth was a globe. He said it's a circle. Like a pizza.

Just ask her if she can look up the word that was used. It was the word for circle, and the hebrews had a word for sphere that were two completely different things. I think if you search Hebrew lexicon you'll be able to find this out as well. I think it was Pythagorus that postulated the earth was a sphere without attributing it to divine intervention. Also you should probably take the story about Joshua telling the sun to stand still, to show they didn't believe in a heliocentric universe. I would probably steer the conversation something like this:

"So you're saying here that Jehovah inspired the scriptures here for knowledge that was far in advance to the knowledge at the time? For instance around the same time the Greeks were teaching that Apollos carried the sun around the Earth in a chariot and one day he made the sun stay down for months at a time. Knowing what we know now about the Earth rotating around the sun we know that in order for the earth to remain in darkness for months it would involve physics that just aren't possible right, you know the Earth would need to stop rotating, not only that but the whole solar system would need to stop dead in it's tracks. The rotation of the Earth stopping so suddenly would cause large earthquakes, tsunamis, I'm doubting the Earth would survive. Wouldn't you agree that what the Greeks say there wouldn't be possible, by simple physics?"

She'll probably say yes here, unless she can see where you're going with it. From here you hit with the story of Joshua.

"But wait, when I tell you that Joshua told Jehovah to make the sun stand still, he did. Do you believe that happened? So why the double standard?"

The key here is read the chapter before the study and pick out one big major point that you'd like to get into. You want to point to special pleading and making her use her discernment towards other religions with part of your argument, then applying the same thing to Jehovah's Witnesses directly afterwards. There shouldn't be any wiggle room. Here she would agree with the science that it's impossible for Apollos to stop the sun from traveling around the Earth because the sun didn't do that to begin with, and knowing what we do about the Earth the results would be catastrophic. Then immediately following it up with the fact she does believe the same thing can be accomplished when it's her God. I believe amama2six is doing a bible study with the same book and recording it on JWS so if you join you can hear it, I also did a big review on Chapter 3 bringing up a plethora of points.

homeschool

Oh boy, I'm if I were to say what you just said, she'd know something was fishy . I'm not that articulate and persuasive. I'd probably start stuttering right from the get-go, trying to remember what you said here .

Maybe I could copy it on my hand, hehe. or maybe I could do practice sessions. Do you do the review on Chapter 3 on YouTube? Can you post the link to that? I am definitely reviewing the study Before the actual study, and am also looking at the link someone posted on this thread (very helpful). I will also check out the commentary on JWS. Thank you!

....this is the only ex-jw site I am aware of. Can you post the link to JWS? Por Favor? Gracias.

Tuesday

Tell your sister that you have questions regarding the publication but when she's there they slip your mind, so you'd like to write notes when you study the chapter beforehand so that you can remember to bring them up in your study.

Then you'll have a notebook full of questions to ask for the study and it won't seem suspicious.

I haven't done a review on Youtube, my series is about the questions I had, right now I'm kind of the intermediary point for active JWs to go if they have some doubts but don't want to fall full on into apostate material. I think if I do something like that it would turn the corner and I would absolutely be considered an apostate.

besty

Good job homeschool :-)

If I was you I'd be keeping a separate note of all the points that either you 'win' or that stay unresolved or that she offers to do more research on (and whether she gets back to you with a satisfactory answer)

Then as the study draws to a conclusion in a few months you can do a nice re-cap of all the things that you are unconvinced by.

For example on the use of 'Jehovah' to render YHWH:

"I can't get my head round why the Witnesses continue to use 'Jehovah'. Firstly it was constructed by a Spanish monk many thousands of years after original use and secondly it is widely ridiculed by most scholars as not being the best possible translation. The Witnesses have a good record of many changes to their beliefs (embedded criticism but phrased like a compliment) so why won't they go with the facts and change to Yahweh? It seems to me that they have then made all this much worse by adding 'Jehovah' into the New Testament 237 times......it's like they have backed the wrong horse and won't change their mind now....

BTW - the full text of the "Response to What Does The Bible Really Teach" is available as a pdf on freeminds - that should make it easier to print one chapter at a time and scribble notes on....

Studying "What Does the Bible Really Teach?"

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