Why do the JW's say miracles are from Beelzebub

by androb31 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  androb31

  The JW's claim that modern day miracles (prophesying, healing, tongues) are from the devil. The following is their reasoning why they believe this (from an article on the JW official website). This is rather arbitrary when the cited scripture is read.

  The Power of Prayer

  Some religions encourage the sick to pray to be healed now, pointing to the miraculous cures that Jesus and his apostles performed. But such miracles were done for a special purpose. They served to prove that Jesus Christ was the true Messiah and to show that God's favor had been transferred from the Jewish nation to the young Christian congregation. Back then, miraculous gifts were needed to strengthen the faith of the newly established Christian congregation. When the infant congregation got on its feet, as it were, and became mature, the miraculous gifts were "done away with."—1 Corinthians 13:8, 11.

  8 Love never fails. But whether there are [gifts of] prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with.

  11 When I was a babe, I used to speak as a babe, to think as a babe, to reason as a babe; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the [traits] of a babe.

  Didn't the Pharisees also claim that Jesus' miracles were from the devil, also, didn't Jesus say that they were blaspheming the Holy Spirit when they said this, which is unforgiveable?
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  jwfacts

  The real reason they make the claim is because they don't have the gifts of the spirit.

  The reasoning is very poor, and based on 1 Cor 13:8.

  Love never fails. But whether there are [gifts of] prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with. For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially; but when that which is complete arrives , that which is partial will be done away with. When I was a babe, I used to speak as a babe, to think as a babe, to reason as a babe; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the [traits] of a babe. For at present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face to face . At present I know partially, but then I shall know accurately even as I am accurately known.

  The Watchtower claims that which is complete refers to when the Bible was completed, so after the apostles the gifts ended. Obviously that does not make sense. For one, the Bible Canon was not really decided for 300 years. Further, if you read v 12 it is referring to seeing face to face , so that which is complete would be at the resurrection.
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  tsar_robles

  interesting answer, jwfacts
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  Chalam

  The real reason they make the claim is because they don't have the gifts of the spirit.

  The reasoning is very poor, and based on 1 Cor 13:8.

  I agree!

  Also they undermine their own reasoning! See the passgage

  1 Corinthians 13:9-12 (New International Version)

  9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

  The WT claim they are the sole prophet and "prophesy". However, from their own reasoning (the perfection has come in the form of the completed bible) they should have stopped "prophesying" long ago! " 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears."

  No doubt a certain person on this board will chime in with this

  Matthew 7:21-22 (New International Version)

  21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'

  Once again, I ask why do the WT claim they are the prophet and and prophesy?

  Also, clearly if there are counterfeit prophets and workers of miracles then there will be real ones.

  Once again, the WT seek to demonise the church, especially those active in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. As has been correctly pointed out, they are guilty of an eternal sin which cannot be forgiven Matthew 12:31

  All the best,

  Stephen
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  androb31

  For those that do chime in using this scripture to discredit miracles.....

  Matthew 7:21-22 (New International Version)

  21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'

  It doesn't appear from this passage that the miracles and such were the qualifiers for rejection but the following is....

  23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

  All this seems to be saying is that just because you are producing outward evidence of following Christ it's possible to discredit those works by your lifestyle.

  Otherwise please explain the following scriptures...

  Mark 16: 17-18 (NIV)

  And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

  John 14: 12 (NIV)

  I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
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  Chalam

  Hi,

  I agree!

  This is an important couple of verses too

  Acts 2:38-39 (New International Version)

  38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."

  Nothing there about the Holy Spirit ceasing the work of His gifts after a few decades. Anyhow have a look around. Millions of people exercising the gifts of the Spirit, speaking in tongues, healing, prophecy etc. Often when you find the gifts in action you find the same accusation too. All the best, Stephen
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  Chalam

  One other thing, it was the last thing Jesus mentioned before He left so I think the "signs and wonder" are obviously important!

  Mark 16:16-19 (New International Version)

  16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

  19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.

  All the best,

  Stephen
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  donuthole

  Ok for starts that section of Corinthians does not mention healing (or exorcisms which is often coupled with healing in the Gospels). Those that Jesus sent out in the ministry healed and cast out demons on the basis of his name before they received the Holy Spirit.

  As mentioned the section in Corinthians isn't talking about the completion of the Bible but rather the time of the ressurection when we see Christ "face-to-face". Right now we only have partial knowledge but then we have total knowledge. At that time there will be no need for prophecy for all is fulfilled. Even faith and hope do not remain for because when the thing hoped for and held in faith arrive there is no further need to hope and hold in faith.

  The only thing that remains is love, God is love, and love is eternal.

  The JW's claim to only "know in part", otherwise why the continual "new light". Yet at the same time they would dogmatically claim this scripture is fulfilled. Well if that which is perfect has arrived, why do they still know in part and prophecy in part??

  The JW's have little understanding of the Holy Spirit. Honestly think back to your time in the religion, how much did the Holy Spirit impact you? Did you even have understand it? What was the Holy Spirit's part in a Christian's life?

  There was a time even in the days of Rutherford where he taught that the Holy Spirit wasn't available anymore since it was only until Jesus arrived. He claimed to be guided by angels. (There are echoes among current Witness beliefs -- the idea that the Angels are directing the preaching work -- compare to how the Holy Spirit directed the preaching in the book of Acts.)

  In this the scripture is fulfilled, "they have a form of godly devotion but prove false to its power." The JW religion has none of the power of the early Church. They even routinely deny the Holy Spirit.
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  passwordprotected

  Can someone provide me with scriptural examples of demons healing people? Cheers.
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  androb31

  Donuthole:

  "The JW's have little understanding of the Holy Spirit. Honestly think back to your time in the religion, how much did the Holy Spirit impact you? Did you even have understand it? What was the Holy Spirit's part in a Christian's life?"

  Holy Spirit impact in the JW religion = nada in my experience

  Holy Spirit in the WT = more flesh works

  Holy Spirit's impact in the JW's life = more door-to-door, more meetings, yadda yadda

  I have actually seen the Holy Spirit in action in numerous ways since my conversion to Christ. Just experiencing God's presence the very first time was something that was foreign as a JW.

  Passwordprotected:

  "Can someone provide me with scriptural examples of demons healing people? Cheers."

  Doubt it. I'm wondering where all the JW apologists are at. I thought they'd be on this one with no time to waste.