Questions about video/audio recording of meetings

by DT 11 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  DT

  I was thinking it might be beneficial for people who are facing disfellowshipping or disassociation to get some kind of recording of the announcement that they are no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses. It could possibly be used as evidence in a lawsuit. (I know that's next to impossible in the current legal climate, but that could change in the future.) It would be proof of the person's status. (I know from personal experience that the Watchtower Society and the local congregation are unwilling to comment on the status of a former member. Perhaps
  they are afraid of lawsuits.) It could also be used to counteract the enormous social pressure that the Watchtower Society uses to silence dissent.

  Suppose these recordings were made available online with as much personal information given about the speaker as is allowed by law. Details could be given about the disfellowshipping arrangement and the extreme psychological damage it causes, including broken families and even suicide. It could be pointed out that the person giving the announcement is responsible for perpetuating this practice. It's not fair to say that he is just following orders. He is delivering the statement publicly and is morally responsible for the consequences.

  It would be interesting to see what neighbors, coworkers, and unbelieving relatives would think when they see the person enforcing a barbaric, cultic form of mind control. They might start to exert some social pressure on the person making that announcement. This might be somewhat intense, but it is likely to only be a fraction of what the disfellowshipped person is experiencing. The Watchtower Society and its representatives would finally get a small taste of the kind of social pressure that they impose on others.

  Can anyone comment on the legal consequences of this kind of recording? I assume the elders might try to remove someone from the hall that they think might make a recording like this. Would they have a legal right to do so in this case, or could it be argued that the person about to be disfellowshipped has a right to collect this evidence, provided that he doesn't cause a disturbance. Would there be any obstacle to making this recording secretly? I should point out that the meetings are open to the public and therefore any announcement of this type is made to the public
  and can't be considered a completely internal matter. It would seem very odd to me if someone can make a public announcement about an individual without that individual having the right to record that statement and provide his own commentary on a public forum. I welcome your thoughts and comments.
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  Snoozy

  With all the recorders available today it would be easy to record. Without being seen.

  I don't see why they can not allow you to record ..I have two shoeboxes full of songs and talks recorded at the hall and assemblys.

  No permission was asked..sneaking in a announcement should be easy..if they find out and object...their old and handicapped that can't make it to meetings would suffer as they wouldn't be able to hear or watch the talks etc......if they forbid it they would have to forbid all recordings I would think.

  Good question tho...

  Snoozy
• 

  stillin

  I was at the DC today and the program opened with the announcement that recordings should only be made for personal use, not any sort of "mass market." I'm thinking unflattering youtube clips, but I still wonder about any recording made without everybody's consent. I've had people actually ask me before I've delivered a public talk whether it would be all right to record it.

  But I don't think it could hurt anything to have in your possession the tape of your disfellowshipping, if for no other reason than to keep in your family album!
• 

  Black Sheep

  I have searched extensively, but cannot find any literature or instructions to publishers or Elders that bans recording anywhere except a in JC.

  I have no idea what the legal issues are on the use of them.

  Cheers

  Chris
• 

  iknowall558

  My husband, HOBOKEN, has recorded everything from our shepherding calls to his judicial and appeal. He has already put some of the recordings up on the forum. The elders in our old cong. are aware of this and actually had a meeting to discuss what they were going to do about it. They finally decided to leave it alone as it would only bring him the 'attention' he's craving.

  I think what they were really saying was, that if they make a fuss about it, then it will only bring unwanted attention on THEM and their organization. They don't want involved in any controversy and so will distance themselves from it, even if they are not happy with it.

  The elders from the shepherding calls are fully aware that they are on the internet for everyone to hear. We recorded everything to let people see how they are not really interested in helping you or answering your questions, but to find out from you first and foremost if you believe that God is only using them. They want to know if you've kept your views to yourself, if you've read any books that criticize them and they want to find out if you fit the description of 'apostate'. People should be made aware of how they conduct their business when someone questions 'the faith', or disagrees with certain teachings. I strongly feel it is in the public interest to do so. They humiliate people, control them, and punish them unjustly for thinking for themselves and not agreeing entirely with them on everything they teach, preach and stand for.

  HOBOKENS recording of his JUDICIAL COMMITTEE will be going up sometime this week and I'm sure it will be an eyeopener for anyone listening. His own brother testifies against him in this meeting.

  At the APPEAL COMMITTEE, there are three elders, three circuit overseers, and two witnesses (his brother and local elder who was 'shepherding' us).

  That is EIGHT elders in total. My husband had to try and defend himself, alone, with no witnesses or representatives. He was also asked beforehand about recording equipment to which he denied. He lied, but the fact is, how could someone believe that scenarios like this existed unless you were able to provide proof of it. What kind of JUDICIAL system do they really have. They are extremely secretative and extremely unfair. Hoboken had no chance against this kind of situation. This is why they need to be exposed ! They must be ! The more people who do it the better? What can they do. They don't want Jehovah's name or the image of their organizaton to be associated with anything negative. That's the bottom line.
• 

  wobble

  Thanks Mrs Hobo,

  I was about to fire off a PM to ask when the JC would be on here, I can't wait ! I think it will do my wife good to listen too.

  As to recording anything, I think that morally this is O.K ( I just hope Reniaa dosn't jump on this thread and start moralising, that would be so sickening) as they should have nothing to fear if what they are doing is Bible based and following the example of Christ.

  Of course the fact they want no record of proceedings speaks for itself. What a kangaroo court ! NO defense, no friend of the accused even ,and no record apart from their own !

  I would not grace one with my presence, they can go and stick their heads further up their a**es !

  Love

  Wobble
• 

  iknowall558

  Wobble

  "Of course the fact they want no record of proceedings speaks for itself. What a kangaroo court ! NO defense, no friend of the accused even ,and no record apart from their own !"

  This is so right what you said. We were so glad we did it , as it turned out that one of the elders was making statements..like when I challenged him on why the WTBTS became an NGO for the UN he said..."It's only the Beast".

  When I reminded him of this on the second visit he denied ever saying it. The other elder with him said , " Oh ..he would never say something like that". We already had it on tape but didn't tell them at that point. Now we can prove that he did say it without a doubt.

  The elders actually assigned one of the body to go and listen to the recordings to see how 'bad' they were. But they would have heard the denials as well as the questions put to them about false prophesying etc. It would give a witness to them.......maybe making some of them think about what we said and go and research for themselves.
• 

  DT

  Thanks for your comments. I'll respond individually.

  Snoozy,

  You're right. It would be a double standard if they only allow some recordings. They have been making recordings for years. It would make them seem very secretive and cultish if they start preventing recordings.

  Stillin,

  I think it's funny that they will have special campaigns to invite the public to their assemblies and then try to prevent video clips from appearing on the Internet.

  I wish I had a recording of the announcement that I'm no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses. It would be proof that I'm no longer associated with that cult.

  Black Sheep,

  I've also never heard of anything that bans recordings, except for in a JC. It will be interesting to see if they start to change their policies. It probably wouldn't do much good because its so easy to record secretly now.

  Iknowall558,

  I think it's great that have you have these recordings. The blog is brilliant. It's about time that the elders face some social accountability for their lies and inhuman treatment of others.

  Wobble,

  "As to recording anything, I think that morally this is O.K ( I just hope Reniaa dosn't jump on this thread and start moralising, that would be so sickening) as they should have nothing to fear if what they are doing is Bible based and following the example of Christ.

  Of course the fact they want no record of proceedings speaks for itself. What a kangaroo court ! NO defense, no friend of the accused even ,and no record apart from their own !"

  I heartily agree.
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  Waffles

  What is the address of the blog with the recordings? I'd love to hear them.
• 

  DT

  Here's the link. It's well worth a visit.

  http://deathorobedience.blogspot.com/