Does the armageddon doctrine make it moral to kill?

by bohm 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • bohm
    bohm

    Hey - this is a semi-serious question i have asked a witness before but did not get a sattisfying answer.

    Consider Bob. Bob is a total psychopat. The only thing Bob really likes to do is to kill people, so thats what he do all day.

    Next door to Bob lives Jill. One day Jill get a visit from two jehovahs witness. The two witness in questions begin to witness to Jill, but Jill is kind of an atheistic bitch so she tells them to stick the bible where the sun dont shine and beat it, then she let her rotweiler loose and one of the witness, being to full of spritual food to run, is eaten. Obviously Jill dont get return calls and never hear from the witness again.

    - now stay with me -

    Accoring to (how i understand) WT doctrine, Jill made a real bummer here because even if we cannot, positively, 100% say that Jill is going to get killed at armageddon, telling two witness to stick it and have her rotweiler eat one of them is NOT good. Jill heard the message and didnt respond, thats bad, and i think all witness will agree that Jills spiritual chances are in a shit state. Jills situation is made worse since what she dont know is that armageddon is due next friday.

    So thats basically Jills prospects. perhaps 95% chance she is going to get killed next friday, end of story.

    Fortunately for Jill, she lives next door to Bob, and on thursday he breaks in and shoot Jill. Now, Jills outlook changed - she is guaranteed to be woken up in the new world for an extra chance, and i think we can safely say, that if we woke up with jesus, moses and all the righous dudes walking around, theres a good chance even a staunch ateist like Jill would listen to what the witness had to say, considering most people alive when she wake up are witness. So what basically happened is that jills prospects got a hell of a lot better because she was killed - from almost certain destrucion, to a chance of being presented with "the truth" backed up by irrefuteable proof and without satan to desieve her.

    What about bob? Well who cares, he died at armageddon.

    The point here is not that i want to say bob did good in being a psychopatic serial killer - no doubt the bible condemn bob to destruction. But what if bob was so sick he didnt care about dying at armageddon? isnt bob, even though the bible tells us to do whatever we can to stop him, doing us all a favor? Would the most unselfish action a parent could do to his/her child not be to imediately kill it, hence making sure it would grow up in a world full of evidence *for* jv teaching? sure, the parent would condemn himself, but it would not be the childs fault - only he would be punished, and the child, once restored to perfection, would not miss the "evil" parent it never knew anyway, because how could there be longin in a perfect mind in a perfect world? isnt that what the JW's teach?

    So i guess my questions is, does the current beliefs about armageddon, judgement and paradise not lead one to conclude that it is really a good thing the world is full of Bobs, hitlers and stalins, since they are helping those who cannot be reached by ordinary witnessing to have a second chance, in a world full of proof and without temptations, even if they in the process loose their hope of everlasting life? What is the "witness way" around this?

    My only counter argument is that jehova would see into the heart of jill and condemn her, even if she was receptive to the truth when presented for it with evidence in the new world. But it raise a lot of questions - if jehova sees into the hearths of people and judge them thus, why care about preaching? is it not then only a way to proove the witness who preach worthy and ... isnt that kind of bonkers when you think of it?

  • bohm
    bohm

    On second thought, i think i should add that i personally dont think its okay to kill or anything.. or that jv's think that. i just think the doctrine about armageddon/judgement/resurrection is self-contradictory...

    ...OR IS THAT JUST WHAT I WANT YOU TO THINK?

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Makes total sense, except that jw parents would need to wait until their child was old enough to be accountable for itself, before they killed it. 'Course, jw/wt world view is totally psycho, anyway. Your illustration should give them some cognitive disonence, at least.

    S

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Ps, after the parents had done their killing chore, and thereby guaranteed to resurrection of their children, they would become judged bloodguiulty by j hoover. They cannot get out of this by killing themselves, because the bible says that that is cowardly, and cowards will not get resurrected. Their only hope at redemption is the they themselves get done in, somehow, perhaps, by the state. Then, they can all get resurrected and be together in the paradise urf.

    S

  • jamiebowers
    jamiebowers

    This wacko reasoning is the cause of many jw related suicides, I would suspect...not good enough to make it through Armageddon, that is just around the corner, btw, so will off myself in hopes of a second chance in the new system. Sick, sik, sick!

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    bohm, You didn't finish the story...

    The bad news: The Rotweiller will die of dub poisoning.

    The good news: The Rotweiller will be resurrected in paradise.

    The bad news: It will then be vegetarian and not eat the JWs.

    The good news: Hitler will be resurrected as a tomato.

    The bad news: The Rotweiller will eat repentant Hitler tomato.

    The good news: The Rotweiller will rebel after the thousand years, eating dozens of faithful dubs, and finally be put out of his vegetarian misery.

    The End.

    B the X

  • bohm
    bohm

    Satanus: The thing about the parents state is the most strange thing. Sure, when the killed their children (and hence assured them resurrection in a world with irrefuteable proof for jw teaching and without satan), they would be doing wrong - killing is wrong and that is. so parents: dead. But one may think of a parent who may be depressed or something and thought: "well, i got 9 children, and statistically, 6 of them will leave the WT and have a much reduced hope. But if i kill them now, all 9 are in heaven. So its kind of 4 resurrected against 9 resurrected. They are more valuable than me, so i will do it".

    So there is an entirely unselfish argument that may lead the parent to kill the children, a path where the parent completely sacrefice himself. So one may ask: if the parent actually kill the children of completely unselfish reasons, would it then be right for jehova to punish him for doing so, just because he breaks a commandment? (which, by the way, is broken a gazillion times in the bible by jehovahs chosen and clearly dont apply to jehova himself).

  • bohm
    bohm

    Billy: you almost cost me a keyboard :-) .

    If bad people are resurrected as fruit... and all the witness in the pictures from paradise walk around with fruit with creepily happy faces, makes you wonder what is going on ;-) .

  • Tired of the Hypocrisy
    Tired of the Hypocrisy

    Didn't the wt used to teach that we are in a JUDGEMENT PERIOD and that Millions who die today will not be resurrected?

  • sir82
    sir82

    If the JW doctrine of who gets a resurrection is really true...

    And if they really took their "global warning work" seriously....

    They'd be killing people instead of preaching to them.

    Preach to someone, 99% chance he says no, when Armageddon comes he dies with no chance of living again.

    Kill someone, he has died before the Great Tribulation has begun, so there's a 100% chance he gets a resurrection.

    It's far more efficient, humane, and ethical to kill people rather than preach to them....if the JW doctrine is true.

    Didn't the wt used to teach that we are in a JUDGEMENT PERIOD and that Millions who die today will not be resurrected?

    Yeah they used to teach that, but it was dropped many years ago.

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