Reproof

ninjaturtle

If someone is reproved by a judicial comittee but not disfellowshipped, how long does it remain on their record? 5 years and then it's never seen again? Or is it always there in their publisher record?

Any help would be appreciated.

anewperson

Also, which record? Let's be more specific.

Records are kept by local congregations but duplicates go to Bethel as well. Ray Franz said he saw some in the basement kept there of persons long, long dead.

Besides the Judicial Committee card, congregations forward letters of recommendation which in fact are also a form of record.

FreePeace

Judicial actions should never be put on a Publisher's Record Card. Any notes from the judicial committee are put into an envelope and sealed. They are kept in the congregation file.

As far as how long do they stay on your record, there is no set time limit. It is up to the discretion of the judicial committee as to when a person gets their privileges back.

I am not sure if the Regular Pioneer application asks if you have been reproved in the last 5 years, but the Bethel application does.

Hope this helps.

FreePeace
"The World is my country, and to do good, my religion." --Thomas Paine
TruthQuest: http://beam.to/truthquest
Who Am I? -How to Reinvent Yourself After Leaving the WTS

ninjaturtle

So once privileges are back, what you're saying is that no written record of the action is kept any longer? What if the person were switching congregations, but already had their privileges. Would the new congregation have to know of the fact that the person was reproved?

Thanks alot freepeace, you've been very helpful.

FreePeace

So once privileges are back, what you're saying is that no written record of the action is kept any longer?

The only written records are the elder's notes and the form to the WTS (I forget the form number) which are kept in the sealed envelope and stored in the congregation file. These sealed envelopes are not to be opened in the future, unless there are unusual circumstances requiring it.

What if the person were switching congregations, but already had their privileges. Would the new congregation have to know of the fact that the person was reproved?

When a person switches congregations and has had all his/her privileges restored, no mention is to be made of previous judicial action. I believe this is generally followed, but due to the incompetence of most elders, it may still happen.

It may be easier to discuss this over the phone. If you want to, email me and I will email you my phone number.

FreePeace
"The World is my country, and to do good, my religion." --Thomas Paine
TruthQuest: http://beam.to/truthquest
Who Am I? -How to Reinvent Yourself After Leaving the WTS

ninjaturtle

Dag Freepeace, you know a whole lot. I have no further questions, they've been satisfied by your answers. I checked through the elder's paying attention to the flock book, and I couldn't find the answers there, so thanks.

anewperson

Not normally "unsealed" but always kept somewhere by someone. And there are letters of recommendation and phone calls that are used and held over people's heads. Not normally you say -- sure, but it does happen, especially if you previously showed you were anti-Watchtower so that they suspect you just might be still yet. Then you will get the rough stuff when you hit the next hall for those who put it into your file will act nice to your face trusting the next set of boys to do the training and disciplining in righteousness for them.

logical

Whatever happened to forgiveness? Surely once the person has repented and accepted the reproof, then that should be the end of it totally.

Keeping a record of sins is not forgiving.

anewperson

Logical, I agree. They should take even the "normally" sealed records and burn them up, but don't. Headquarters views forgiveness and mercy differently from normal churches and even how rank-and-file JW members and many good elders do.

For example you may be forgiven for having opposed them on the blood issue if you turn around and say, I repent take me back. They will reinstate you but still feel that what you did violated "the Eight Things That Jehovah Does Hate" and subject you to testing, re-training, disciplining in righteousness to the fullest extent comparable to that of righteous Job who, though righteous, was still subjected to testing.

Does this sound a bit cult-like? It should because it is.

Ironically, though, if you were reprooved or disfellowshipped for a sin of the flesh like being a homosexual then once they go past the reproof or drop the disfellowshipment, they will normally accept you back without any more to-do.

Sound a bit hypocritical? It should because it also is. The sin or crime of thinking differently is to them far more serious than is something like rape. Why? Because you have questioned their authority, their decrees over you, showing you are DISLOYAL to the THEOCRATIC ARRANGEMENT which is their cute little petty dictatorship.

blondie

February 1974 Kingdom Ministry page 8

Question Box

How long should items be retained in the congregation file?

Judicial matters: Confidential correspondence dealing with serious judicial matters should be kept in a safe place, accessible only to elders. It should be retained for at least five years from the date a case is handled to its completion, or longer if the elders deem it advisable in certain cases."

It sounds like cases must be kept at least 5 years but there is not time limit on how long they should be kept.

As to a letter of introduction that is sent to the new congregation with the publisher card, the BOE should be putting in whatever the new BOE needs to continue any spiritual support you might need. Most letters are pretty vague but it depends on the BOE.

This could work 2 ways too; what if the person had been reproved for child sexual abuse? Wouldn't we want the elder body to give the next congregation a warning?

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