It's Amazing!

by whathehadas 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  passwordprotected

  I agree it's amazing, but I completely understand how and why it happens.

  I was touch and go myself during my exit. I believed in God, but my understanding of who and what he is was deeply shaken (which turned out to be a good thing). As a JW I had no relationship whatsoever with God and I rarely prayed to him. I didn't actually like him very much, he was to me the OT God. He was Jehovah and he was itching to snuff me out because I was a crap human being.

  One night, however, I ended up on my knees as an absolute last resort. I even put my hands together like you imagine the Christian zealots doing. I just begged God to help me, I told him I was utterly confused and scared about what I was learning about the WTS and that I was frightened of losing my family (i.e. my wife and children) and I didn't know where to turn or what to do.

  I can point back to that night as a turning point. God suddenly started become real and I could start to see him working in my life and in my family life. I had new courage.

  As time went on my wife and I kept reading the Bible, focusing on the NT. Then it dawned on us that God is all about Jesus. From then on we read the Bible through the lens of Jesus. I'm still challenged by some of YHWH's antics in the OT and I probably always will be. But I always ask God to help me with the Spirit to try and make sense of the parts of the Bible I don't understand and I always focus on the person of Jesus. God is not constrained by the Bible; the Bible doesn't contain God, it just talks about him.

  I've gone from being someone who didn't really like God much, feared him and didn't really want to know him or talk to him, to someone who talks to God every day. I've personally witnessed miracles happen, the most recent one happened right in front of my eyes. This was a direct and immediate answer to prayer to God.

  Those who know me best (and by that I mean know who I was a JW and know who I am now) can see the huge transformation in my life. There are things I do and say now that the old JW me would have hated and would have scorned in the most vitriolic way (eg I play the guitar in our church's praise band. My wife still can't get her head around this and neither can I, but I actually look forward to it). But I've felt God change me and change my life. My personal experience of God convinces me that he's real.

  The hypothesis put on people like me is that we don't want to take responsibility for our lives or for the world around us. My personal experience is the complete opposite. Faith that God is real and is working in me and around me makes me feel much more responsible for my life, for my role as a husband and father and as a member of the community. I want to take the "Kingdom reality" in me and make a difference. I'm prepared to take personal responsibility*.

  *This is true of many other Christians, hence the vast number of Christian charities working to feed, clothe and house orphans in Africa, to cite one example. If these Christians didn't feel a personal responsibility to make a difference to society, they wouldn't do what they do. And no, I'm not using this as an example of evidence that God exists in the natural world. They just believe that God is real, that God changes lives, that God works miracles and they put their money - and their lives - where their mouth is.
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  carla

  Password, what do you mean by "I even put my hands together like you imagine the Christian zealots doing"? I can't believe I never asked this, don't jw's fold their hands in prayer? or put them together much like you may see pictures of little children praying at their bedside in Christian literature or even the Norman Rockwell type of picture?
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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  I'm not surprised that a large number of former Witnesses leave religion altogether. As others have mentioned, the Watchtower basically poisons the well. We are taught that other religions are full of money-grubbing pedophile clergy who teach lies (and to some extent, this is true!).

  Many Witnesses that I grew up with are not very "religious." We always mocked "holy rollers" and "Jesus freaks" and got great pleasure out of proving their beloved doctrines (e.g., trinity, immortal soul) wrong. Many of us liked the JW religion more for what it was not rather than what it was.

  So what happens if you take a member of a religion who is not really religious and believes that all other religions are bogus, and show him that his religion is wrong? Well, it seems reasonable that he would reject religion in general. Like someone once said: 'everyone's an atheist about most gods (Thor, Zeus, etc.)...I just take it one god further.' That's what a lot of Witnesses do vis-a-vis religion.

  I've talked to Witnesses who, when confronted with holes in their theology, state: "well nobody else is right." My response: take away the "else" and I'll agree with you.

  In my personal opinion, many religious people simply lack the humility to recognize that maybe we don't have all the answers. And maybe we're not as special as we'd like to think we are. That's a sobering thought and it takes some intellectual courage and humility to consider that possibility. But isn't it the more likely scenario?
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  designs

  Are Atheists and Agnostics as socially and environmentally motivated as believers in a supreme being are. Do they have there own version of the Golden Rule and being their Brother's Keeper.
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  passwordprotected

  Password, what do you mean by "I even put my hands together like you imagine the Christian zealots doing"? I can't believe I never asked this, don't jw's fold their hands in prayer? or put them together much like you may see pictures of little children praying at their bedside in Christian literature or even the Norman Rockwell type of picture?

  Hi Carla. Good question. I put them palms together, fingers pointing up. I'm sure some JWs do this, but you'll rarely, if ever, see it in a Kingdom Hall.

  Btw, I'm not suggesting that this is a sign of Christian zealotry or that one must do this with their hands when praying. I'm just illustrating that place I was at that I fell to my knees, my hands together as described, and prayed. It didn't carefully think it out before hand, it just happened that way. It surprised me, I guess is what I'm driving at....
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  passwordprotected

  Are Atheists and Agnostics as socially and environmentally motivated as believers in a supreme being are. Do they have there own version of the Golden Rule and being their Brother's Keeper.

  I've no idea. The point I was making in my post was in reply to the previously and persistently offered hypothesis that believers lack personal responsibility.
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  PSacramento

  Ah, the OT God VS the NT God, how many times have I had this discussion with God, with my friends and family, with Rabbis and Priests !

  Far too many to count I think.

  My conclusion:

  MY God is the God of the NT, the New Covenant, the Father of Jesus, OUR Father, a loving and forgiving father, "Slow to anger, quick to forgive".

  There were hints of God's true nature in the OT, but they were overshoweded by the "laws" of the people writting the OT.

  The OT writers were insipred in their writings about God, but too many times they justified their ways as being God's ways, IF the Old Covenant was correct, IF it had Worked, IF it was God's Will, we would have no need for the New Covenant, for Jesus.

  The fact that Jesus came and created a New Covenant shows that the people of the Old one were totally lost, sure they got some stuff right, but the dropped the ball bigtime in their belief of what God wants, of what God was, of WHO he IS.

  Jesus made all that clear, God is Love, God is Grace, but WE nust receive God through Jesus, We must creat that personal relationshipe between Us and our Heavenly Abba and his Divine Son.
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  PrimateDave

  I grew up in the so-called Bible Belt of the USA. The attitudes of many Christians in that area did nothing to recommend their belief systems to me. Even as a born-in Witness, I began to have many doubts about the Bible itself. All it took to become agnostic/atheistic was an in depth look at the real origins of the books of the Bible to see that they were the work of men. An objective look at the Organization and its Governing Body put the final nail in that coffin.

  Dave
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  passwordprotected

  @PSacramento;

  Amen - "Jesus made all that clear, God is Love, God is Grace, but WE nust receive God through Jesus, We must creat that personal relationshipe between Us and our Heavenly Abba and his Divine Son."
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  Atomahawk

  "I had two seperate ministers at completely different times tell me they believed the jw's & Mormons produce more athiests than anybody in the world."

  This wouldn't surprise me, prior to becoming a JW I did believe in an almighty god and turned to him often at different times in my life. Like many in this world I was seeking answers and the religion I was born in (Roman Catholic)was full of hypocrites, liars, stealers, abusers etc. So I abviosly wouldn't turn to them. The JW's seemed to have the answers and most responses seemed logical and well thought out. These people that became friends were sincere, kind, honest etc. When my eyes finally opened 10 years later and you realize the real truth, you turn away from god. Why? Logic. Heres mine, we have a very short life, we ask god to help in finding the truth (sincere) then you realize the truth turns out to be a sham, the logical outcome is there is no god. I certainly don't have time to study every religion on the planet, christanity has over 30K different religions or church's, Then we have islam, hinduism etc. that's a lot of god.

  If god can't be bothered to show mankind his/hers/its true colors so to speak then why should anyone seek out god? If gods logic is "seek me out" then I say "prove to me that your worth the time and effort then we can talk"

  'Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me'