I was told I was too deep of a thinker.
"He was really smart. Smart people leave all the time" <- Unwitting Witness Tells The Truth
by gubberningbody 45 Replies latest jw friends
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loosie
Gubberning, I think Poppers is reffering to the truth within oneself.
Reniaa, if god didn't want us to think he wouldn't have given us a brain. Unless you are saying that the ability to think is from the devil.
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poppers
Popper,
" truth cannot be found in intellectualism, in pursuit of ideas, in the land of the mind"
How do you know this?
What is "intellectualism"?
How is it so that "pursuit of ideas" is valueless?
Truth is that which never changes and is always present; it gives a sense of wholeness and eliminates the sense of separation; it is one; it is eternal, not dependent upon time - none of that will be found in the mind. Mind accepts, rejects, ponders, analyzes, compares, clings, resists - it is one thought after another, always changing, always seeking. So in the pursuit of truth, mind gets in the way. It's fine for other things, like learning how to do something or expanding its body of facts and knowledge, but in this one area of finding truth it becomes an obstacle. loosie is right, it is found within oneself, nowhere else. That includes religion, philosophy, intellect, and ideas. Truth is what is present when all of that is absent. Pursuit of ideas has value except when looking for truth. How do I know all of this? Because it is my direct experience. Only you can discover truth for yourself, and it lies within you as your essential nature, and your essential nature has nothing to do with any "idea of me" that one holds in the mind, with any idea of "God", with any idea of "truth".
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Frank75
Reniaa Wrote
1 Corinthians 1:19-20 (New International Version)
19 For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." [a]20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
It never dawns on drones like Reniaa (myself included because I used to taunt these boards as a Fundy JW apologist) that the very intelligence being mocked by Paul is the same type of winsome oratory and over the top intellectualism spewed by the Watchtower writing staff. Arguments meant to bully, extort and control. Much of what they write or reason is nothing more than "debates over words" and "violent disputes over trifles" (or leading to violence, the violence being shown to the one being tossed out)
Try this one on, "For example, to one there is given through the spirit speech of wisdom, to another speech of knowledge according to the same spirit, 1 Cor 12:8-9)
Reniaa needs to take the next step in her exodus from the JW's. Her first was fellowshipping with us (as I did). The next step is to take a look at the context around these proof texts she uses.
The next step just might take her off the broad and comfortable road she is to the cramped and narrow path that most of us have taken.
Anyone can pull Paul out of their arse when it suits their purpose. Why don't you scan down in your JW bible and consider the ramifications to JW mind control from other expressions such as these:
Now to me it is a very trivial matter that I should be examined by YOU or by a human tribunal (1 Cor 4:3)
Who employs Human tribunals, or courts made up of 3 judges? Could it be the superfines?
"Do not go beyond the things that are written," in order that YOU may not be puffed up individually in favor of the one against the other. (1 Cor 4:6)
Where does the bible condemn a blood transfusions, or if Abstaining from blood was intended to cover Blood transfusions, where does the bible permit certain parts of it to be exempt?
Or Where does the bible condemn military service? Paul didn't seem to object, " Who is it that ever serves as a soldier at his own expense?" (1 Cor 9:7)
Not a very practical illustration to an audience of conscientious objectors!
" Everything that is sold in a meat market keep eating, making no inquiry on account of YOUR conscience... proceed to eat everything that is set before YOU, making no inquiry on account of YOUR conscience" (1 Cor 10:25,27)
Doesn't sound like anything the Watchtower ever told us to do. We had drama's showing people interrogating Pizza parlors about their meat!
At least you are thinking. We are all rooting for you.
Frank75
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inkling
Anyone can pull Paul out of their arse
Well, that does give a whole new meaning to Paul's homophobia...
[inkling]
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gubberningbody
I enjoy thinking about thinking and breaking things down so please don't take this personally...
Truth is that which never changes and is always present; it gives a sense of wholeness and eliminates the sense of separation; it is one; it is eternal, not dependent upon time - none of that will be found in the mind.
Heraclitus (greek philosopher) was reported to have said that one can never step into the same stream twice. Now I don't consider ancient philosophers to be correct for being either ancient, or for being philosophers, but my take on this is that from an analysis of this world of experience with the tools we have available for parsing the same, we can say that everything changes and that the idea of the eternal, ever-present and unchanging is the "Maya" (indian philosophy which describes this as an illusion), an illusion or epiphenomenon at best of which we simply are incapable of escaping.
If there is anything which never changes, we are not aware of it.
If there is anything which is always present, we are not aware of it.
If this thing of which we are not aware of gives a sense of wholeness and eliminates the sense of separation,
we cannot know that it even exists,
we cannot know if it is eternal, or indeed if anything is and
we cannot know to what degree, if any there is time dependency for such a thing.
If we define truth in such a slippery way, then we are in a position of being forced to stop having a discussion.
I call this manner of sentence creation with verbs, subjects an predicates nonsense for refusing to use language in a way that has correspondency to the external world. In this way I have to agree with the logical positivists (tentatively)