I have a lot of good stuff at home on the subject but I'm at work and could use some help for a friend who was just conversing w/ a JW.
I need some good sriptures & reasoning to refute Jesus = Michael Archangel
by androb31 236 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Chalam
Here's the rest, every verse on Michael
Daniel 10:13 Daniel 10:21 Daniel 12:1 Jude 1:9 Revelation 12:7
Not one says Michael became Jesus.
This one clearly says he isn't Jesus
Jude 1:9 (New International Version)
9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"
Who is Lord? See verse 4 from the same chapter
4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
Also see here Romans 10:9 1 Corinthians 12:3
Yes the godless men include JWs. They change the grace of God literally, they have removed this word from their bible. They deny Jesus by saying He is Michael and neither do they profess Him as Lord as they change the word to "Jehovah" in the greek NWT.
Job done?
All the best,
Stephen
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androb31
Thanks Chalam....
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blondie
Here are some interesting points:
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glenster
What I have on it is on pp.6b to 10, with the section on Michael in the bottom
part of p.8, at the next link:
http://gtw6437.tripod.com/
If I was the editor of the Bible and needed you to think Jesus was Michael, I
would have written it with several simple differences and there would have been
no mistaking it.
No "no one was with me" for creation in the OT, no Logos or aka Jesus
(wouldn't you think an angel sent to earth would keep the same name?) or
attributing qualities or names of God to him, no "eigo eimi"s, no wisdom
literature with God's own wisdom personified and sent to people (something the
JWs leaders claim nobody could have understood at the time....)--I'd have
archangel Michael was with God and was sent to people, etc.
It gets schizophranic in Revelation with Jesus here and Michael there--what is
this, the Patty Duke Show?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQTqKcojrVY
When Jesus and Stephen were threatened with rocks, I'd have them say "I'm
Michael" or "I'm talking about Michael" to have them put down their rocks.
They didn't have a rule to kill you because you were or saw an angel.
I wouldn't have people worship/do obeisance to a "god" or pray to him, or
have him referred to as the Lord of the "one God and one Lord" Shema or have
Thomas exclaim the Shema at him. Prayer and worship were among the ways
followers in 1st cent. Judaism indicated belief in the one God.
In related history, the JWs leaders' version people would have been taught by
Jesus and the apostles but strangely non-committal and disappeared right away--
but not before changing a bunch of "Jehovah"s to "Lord"s in the various
territories the originals were written in and spread to, with the agreement of
the followers in those various areas. -
designs
The Michael as Jesus issues go back to the Reformation at least. John Calvin, Martin Luther, Matthew Henry, August Strong all believed that Michael was a designation for one of Jesus prehuman roles. The captions of 'The Angel of the Lord' and "Michael' in the OT were considered to have been refering to the same person by these Reformers.
As with most technical issues of the Bible people will spend hours debating and researching such things and neglect doing the things that help people in their communities such as volunteering at the local Food Bank or Community Centers and volunteering for environmental cleaning and restoration programs.
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Farkel
My question is:
How would the quality of our lives be improved if we discovered who Michael actually was?
Farkel