Second half of Judicial recordings!!!!! Podcast 10

by Hobo Ken 20 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  dozy

  Listened to the recording – thanks for posting.

  I found it somewhat ironic that one of the grounds for DFing you was your “confession” that you supposedly made during the JC meeting. You actually did well to “flat bat” all the pointed questions during the session but ultimately the decision was pretty much made prior to the meeting. As Besty rightly pointed out on a previous related thread , the point of a JC isn’t to establish innocent or guilt – the guilt has already been established by the investigation beforehand. The purpose is to establish whether or not there is repentance.

  I thought it was particularly sad that the elders had tried & failed to get your parents to act as witnesses against you - they actually seemed quite disappointed by that. And quite bizarre as one of the main grounds for DFing was your going on holiday with DF’d friends , yet one of the elders was originally due to go on the same holiday. Would it not have made more sense to choose 3 elders who had no connection with you?

  Lessons for faders who don’t want to be DFd: Say nothing to anyone , especially family. If “shepherded” , respond in the vaguest fashion about “a few issues” or doubts -don’t elaborate. Never put anything in writing that could be used against you.
• 

  passwordprotected

  And quite bizarre as one of the main grounds for DFing was your going on holiday with DF’d friends , yet one of the elders was originally due to go on the same holiday. Would it not have made more sense to choose 3 elders who had no connection with you?

  Wasn't it patently obvious that he had his own agenda? Mental. They just do whatever they want, making it up as they go along. Just as well a person's eternal salvation isn't at stake...

  Lessons for faders who don’t want to be DFd: Say nothing to anyone , especially family. If “shepherded” , respond in the vaguest fashion about “a few issues” or doubts -don’t elaborate. Never put anything in writing that could be used against you.

  Isn't it a shame that those who don't believe the teachings of the GB can't just leave and get on with their lives without fearing punishment from the rest of the group? Isn't that an offense against a person's human rights?
• 

  iknowall558

  I thought it was particularly sad that the elders had tried & failed to get your parents to act as witnesses against you -

  Well the two elders who went to visit Matts parents to extract information from them, (bearing in mind that this was under the guise of a 'shepherding call' also to help them through this 'upsetting' time, with me and Matt no longer going to meetings) was, Ronnie Moffat -- who was the chairman of the JC and Ronnie Hunter, who was one of the witnesses who testified against Matt.

  THE CHAIRMAN AND A WITNESS AGAINST MATT, shepherded his parents.......!!!!!!!!!!!!

  How on earth would any of that hold up in a Court of Law.....the whole thing would get thrown out.

  It would have made more sense to choose three elders that had nothing to do with Matt, but he knew nothing of the visit to his parents until afterwards. There were not many elders in our hall, so this is the way it turned out. So, again, as in the case of Matt, they used information, which should have remained private, as it was a shepherding call, but chose to use it against him.

  When his mum found out, as I recall, she was pretty annoyed about it. But of course, she did nothing.
• 

  iknowall558
• 

  inkling

  Wow, this makes me glad that the last time I talked honestly
  to the elders about my thoughts and status of belief was so
  long ago that I didn't admit anything dire.

  This also makes me want to have as LITTLE contact with any
  elders as possible.

  I think I HAVE said DFable things to my parents, and I can
  only hope my elders never rustle up a hunting party.

  I'm a little confused though, what was the actual "testimony
  of two witnesses"? And do you think they DFed you for that,
  or becuase of all this other stuff they were "sure" you were
  doing but had no proof for?

  [inkling]
• 

  Lady Liberty

  Dear Matthew,

  Well first of all...(((HUGS!!!)))

  I tell you, everytime I listen to one of these meetings it just gets my blood boiling! I thought you did an awesome job in defending yourself. I appreciated the example you gave about the generation changing back and forth, and how the "new" understanding to what they thought it to mean clear back in 1927.

  This is what gets me...

  Look how many times they flipp flopped their understanding on just this one subject. What if you still firmly believed the last understanding and couldn't wrap your head around the "new understanding" refering to the anointed as being the generation. Would you be disfellowshipped? Most definately, if you refused to conform. But why? Was this not "spiritual food given at the proper time???" Was this not truthful food from Christ Jesus, the head of the congregation?? At the time they taught it, they would have told you "YES". But since there is a change of understanding it could now be a disfellowshipping offence because it is considered "old light" and is now, really, a FALSE TEACHING. So would not this label them as false teachers. Wether by intention or not. From 1927 till now they taught a false teaching...how does this make them different from "false religion"??????

  Second, they said to you that you knew the teachings when you stood up to agree with them when you became baptised. But you agreed to be baptised upon beliefs that now have been discarded by the organization. So the oath you took was an oath that not just agreed with the teachings you were taught, but to any new teachings they may come up with for the rest of your life! That includes any teachings you based your faith and hope on, that THEY may choose to be null and void in the future!!!!!!!!! Does not the Bible say that "God does NOT change"!!!????

  None of us were ever told at our baptism this may be the case. When you agree to the teachings of the Watchtower and decide to become a baptised JW, you think this is based on the teachings that you learned to be true, and that you could count on them forever to be truthful teachings. (They were never truthful or they would not have discarded them). Then they go and ditch those teachings. And because you were baptised are supposed to have "blind faith", and that your oath still applies to the new teachings and you should never challenge or analys them to be truthful like you were invited to do before dedication.

  They don't warn you of the outcome for you and your loved ones should you choose not to agree with any "new light". That they will take away everyone you have ever known and loved if you don't conform!!! It is a sick and extreemly dangerous CULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  Over and over they have flip flopped back and forth on different issues, as I am sure you are well aware. The blood, organ transplants, generation, etc......my Grandfather died because of the blood issue! Fractions that are now ok to take oculd have saved his life!! He is just one in THOUSANDS who died standing firm for a belief that has now changed!!!!!!!!!! He would most likely still be with us today had the "new light" come around in time! This is what I mean by extreemly dangerous!!

  I have a brother and neices, grandmothers, an aunt and uncle and many cousins and friends who we have lost due to this cult, as most here have lost many close to them. If only people could become more educated and warned before they get sucked in.

  Anyhow...I guess I am done ranting! Hang in there!!! In time you will have this all behind you and you will find peace. Thank you for sharing your experience, and know you will always have those who can relate and who appreciate what your going through, here.

  Sincerely,

  Lady Liberty

  What an insult to Jehovah and the Angels for the elders to suggest that Jehovah allows them to teach these teachings, (for howe many years...till they have new light. And in the case of the generation they have been misguided since ...1927???????) but for these teaching to go on for decades for the purpose of allowing ones to stumble and then for the Angels to remove them???????? What loving God would do that to his people?????????????? Not the one I know and love that is for sure!!

  They place their misdirection back on Jehovah and blame him!!!!! Which DISGUSTS and INFURRIATES me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  Anyhow......I am sorry you are going through this...hang in there!!! Hopefully you will still be able to see your parents.

  SIncerely,

  Lady Liberty

  Say you were disfellowshipped because you refused to believe the latest "understanding" regarding the generation.
• 

  boyzone

  Oh Matt!

  I can't believe what I just heard! How on earth did you maintain your cool thru all that? I was getting hett up just listening to it! How they can sit there and say "we only want to help you" when they clearly had already found you guilty before you even got there. I hope you NEVER take them up on their offer to go back.

  The blatant injustice is appalling. It beggers belief how 2 elders can commend you for keeping your own council and at the same time accuse you of spreading apostate ideas. The whole thing stinks...

  Thank you so much for keeping a cool head under pressure and getting those recordings. They'll prove invaluable for showing JW interested ones just what'll likely happen to them if they ever disagree with the Society - even after leaving.
• 

  Hobo Ken

  >Lady Liberty

  Thanks so much for your kind comments and observations. You are spot on with what you say about their fluctuating doctrines and beliefs.

  I couldn't push it too much at the actual Judicial as I'd already done this at the "shepherding" visits and didn't want it to end the J.C. prematurely.

  The reasoning you set out regarding the things you have to believe from baptism onward are very sound, and in fact this is why i've titled my site death or obedience.

  The position that the organisation puts it's people in is not that of subjection to their God "Jehovah" but rather one of complete submission to the organisation and this is by design not by accident.

  They may not be aware that their "teachings" which are compared to new light from God are actually in real terms lies in God's name, something which puts them in a perilous postion.

  Either way the audio serves notice of the above in hard-hitting fashion to any new or interested ones or to doubting JW's.

  > Boyzone

  Thanks for listening. It's not easy to listen to is it? Even worse being there......Just about managed to hold it together.

  Although I knew of the blatant injustice and their agenda before the JC even took place it was a little easier knowing that their behaviour would be shown up for what it was and very much on the record. It's no wonder they don't "allow" recordings eh?

  I will never go back, be assured of that!!!

  Matt.
• 

  Anti-Christ

  I agree that this is an excellent tool to help people out. It's great that you did this. I liked how they compared the FDS to Jesus, "Jesus said things that shocked people" They expect people to consider the words of the FDS as if they were the words of Jesus and they don't even notice it, the mind control is crazy.
• 

  Edington

  Hi Matt, I'd like to say WELL DONE for keeping your cool.

  I'm sure I'd have blown a fuse but the way you handled them was the better course to take.

  Elders are so slippery in a JC situation.

  It was chilling to hear them say they 'love' you when they were obviosly out to DF you from the start.

  Do they know this recording of them is on the net?

  A big hug from me too

  Ed