When King Saul wanted to know if they should continue to chase after the Philistines, the high Priest would ask Jehovah by rolling the "Jehovah dice {Urim and Thumim} "yes" or "No." I find this interesting that God would use a dice to decide a major battle plan....anyone else smell a rat?
Urim And Thumin....or "Jehovah Dice" as I call it! High preist rolls "yes" or "No." Unreal!
by Witness 007 9 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Black Sheep
You are not the only one that smells a rat.
There was a discussion on it not so long ago.
Cheers
Chris
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WTWizard
What if I use my 8-ball to decide whether I want to do field circus on any given day, and if it says "No", I don't go? That is about the equivalent--or using my Ouija board.
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bluecanary
I never understood this.
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glenster
If you have a faith for it, the idea would be God communicated through the
priests that way. It would be an article of faith that God spoke to them that
way or any way. We're not sure what the Urim AND Thummin were, though. The
interpretation that one indicated a positive answer and the other a negative one
is uncertain and debated (see the article at the next link).
http://www.searchgodsword.org/enc/isb/view.cgi?number=T9017 -
Narkissos
Urim-Thumim may be a late Torah name and reconstruction of the older Israelite form of priestly divination and oracle, which earlier texts associate with the ephod, e.g. 1 Samuel 14 -- although the LXX version of v. 41 contains a clearer reference to the urim and thumim: instead of "bring out (the) perfect" (habah thamim, MT) it reads "if the wrong is in me or in my son Jonathan, give evidence (dos dèlous = give urim), and if you say (it is) in your people Israel give holiness-perfection (dos dè hosiotèta = give thumim)" -- which may correspond to an earlier Hebrew Vorlage. Exactly what it was and how it worked is a matter for conjecture, but it seems that besides "yes" and "no" answers it could provide null answers (= "no answer," 1 Samuel 14:36f; 28:6), perhaps by a simultaneous or successive combination of "yes" and "no". In any case it is equated to casting lots (1 Samuel 14:42), which was generally an appeal to divine decision in Antiquity (cf. Proverbs 14:33) -- something probably very similar to non-Israelite forms of divination (e.g. Babylonian, Ezekiel 21:26, "he shakes the arrows").
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Witness 007
Jehovahs ouija board....thats funny!
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Ténébreux
I guess Einstein was wrong :-P
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AllTimeJeff
This is not something easily explained if you buy into JW dogma and their explanation of the bible. Like anything they don't have a great explanation for, they don't refer to this except when absolutely necessary.
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Farkel
If one took away the notion of a Urum and thumin, the entire foundation for the Mormon Church would collapse.
I still think Einstein was right!
Farkel