The possibility of reform?

by Norm 17 Replies latest jw friends

  • Norm
    Norm

    A quite interesting article on the possibility of reforming ones religion was printed in the February 1. 1995 issue of the Watchtower, which asked the following question:

    "Your Religion—A Ship That Should Never Be Abandoned?
    A SHIP is in the midst of a tempest. The crew, who are struggling desperately to save their vessel, are faced with a dramatic decision: either to stay aboard or to abandon ship and save themselves. Did you know that this terrifying scenario is used as a theological illustration? Theologians, especially Catholic scholars, often compare their church to a ship that is weathering a storm. They say that this ship, with Jesus or Peter at the helm, represents the only means of salvation. The position of the clergy is, ‘Never abandon the ship. The church has been through serious crises before, but it is a ship that has weathered all of history’s tempests.’ Some say, ‘Why abandon her? What alternatives are there? Why not stay and help steer her into calmer waters?’ In harmony with this figurative language, many people, belonging to all manner of religions, reason, ‘I know that my religion is wrong in many things, but I hope it will change. I don’t want to abandon it. I would like to have a part in helping it overcome its difficulties.’ This kind of reasoning may be dictated by sincere affection for one’s ancestral religion or even by the fear of “betraying” it." The Watchtower, February 1, 1995, page 3.

    It is strange to see some of the arguments here. The Catholics are saying that "Jesus" is behind the church and that it represents the "only means of salvation".
    Doesn't such claims ring a bell folks? Haven't we heard those words before, somewhere?
    Indeed we have. Like the Catholic Church, the Watchtower organization is even elevated to the position of saviour!

    "Faith in Jehovah's Victorious Organization"
    The Watchtower, March 1, 1979, page 12

    'Stay Awake and Keep Your Senses'
    And while now the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah’s organization for salvation, the time no doubt will come when the message takes on a harder tone, like a “great war cry." The Watchtower, December 1, 1981, page 21.

    Also the Catholic song and dance about, "Why abandon" the church, and the question: "What alternatives are there?" seem strangely familiar. Yes, we have heard it before. The Watchtower seem to take this even one step further by stating that abandoning the organization are equal to abandoning Jesus Christ himself.

    "Praise Jehovah with His People
    16 If we truly appreciate Jehovah’s earthly organization, we will remain loyal to it, knowing that the organization is his. If we were to leave it, where else could we go? There is no other organization that is doing the divine will or that is educating people for life everlasting. When many abandoned Jesus Christ, he asked his apostles: “You do not want to go also, do you?” Peter replied: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life; and we have believed and come to know that you are the Holy One of God.” (John 6:66-69)" The Watchtower, June 1, 1973, page 404.

    "The Path of the Righteous Does Keep Getting Brighter ***
    But Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his “faithful and discreet slave,” made up of spirit-anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do." The Watchtower, December 1, 1981. Page 27.

    The article then continues:

    A case in point is that of Hans Küng, a well-known Catholic dissident theologian, who mused: “Should I abandon the boat during the storm, leaving those with whom I have sailed until now to face the wind, to bail the water, and perhaps to fight for survival?” He replied: “I will not give up my effectiveness within the church.” Another alternative would be “breaking with this church, because of its defection, for the love of higher values, and perhaps, to be more authentic Christians.”—Die Hoffnung bewahren.
    The Watchtower, February 1, 1995, page 3.

    The well known Catholic critic Hans Küng is not expelled from the church, he is certainly not very popular in Rome, but he still remains within the church. A man like Küng would be impossible in the Watchtower organization, he would have been DF'd years ago and his name would have been dragged trough the mud by the Watchtower. Under the condition, which is quite common in many mainstream churches, where dissent and differing opinions are allowed, there can of course be room for reform. In the Watchtower movement it is impossible with anything resembling reform under the prevailing conditions.

    In conclusion, the article states:

    But can a person stay aboard the boat of his own church in the hope that God, in his mercy, will allow all religions an unlimited period of time to reform? That is a serious question. As indicated by the illustration, hurriedly leaving an endangered ship by taking to insecure lifeboats would be as dangerous as staying aboard a sinking ship. Is it wise to stay in a church at all costs, whatever its condition? What prospects of reform do religions today offer? How long will God allow them to work against his will?
    The Watchtower, February 1, 1995, page 3.

    We all understand why the Watchtower comes to the conclusion that a Catholic should leave the church because there is no hope for reform there, of course totally ignoring the fact that the Catholic Church has changed a lot for the better. Catholics should of course not hesitate to join the Watchtower organization. The question this Watchtower raise: "Is it wise to stay in a church at all costs, whatever its condition?" is a question which it is far more relevant for the JW “reformers” to ask themselves, than it would be for any Catholic.

    Norm.

  • ZazuWitts
    ZazuWitts

    Norm,

    Indeed, the Watchtower never fails to bring up this same old, tired, argument re the RC church. And, you are right, the Catholic church has made many changes that better serve their membership. However, even if the WT acknowledges a change from 'Rome' - they always put a negative spin on it, don't they, referring to even the most minor change as 'confusing.'

    Yet, the Tower, itself has played switcheroo on so many issues, such as the FDS, 'higher powers', organ transplants, and others, to serve their own organizational interests. Of course, JW's are expected to take all this in stride and experience no 'confusion.'

    Thanks for the post, Norm and Happy Holidays to you!

    Now-a-days, their harranging re the Catholic church, either amuses me, or somewhat ticks me off, depending on the mood I'm in ha,ha. Whatever, it's been going on for decades, especially since the Rutherford 'era.'

  • 607BCisAbigLIE
    607BCisAbigLIE

    You make very good points here. That shows me how an organization can use propaganda just to promote itself. And I agree with you that the Catholic Church has change a lot for the best. But the WT sticks on sins of the past, what we should never do. Anyone must allow that if there is a change, to just aknowledge it, instead of hiding behind preconceived toughts. But the Org. will put great emphasy on doctrines, telling what is true vs. what is not, which is not very important as long as the doctrine are not restrictive on followers (the WT would learn a lesson here if the GB wasn't so narrow minded)

  • ZazuWitts
    ZazuWitts

    Back again:)

    607BCisAbigLie,

    Good comments, thanks. But mostly I wanted to say "Welcome" and that your user name just gave me the biggest laugh - good to start out one's morning with.

  • dungbeetle
    dungbeetle

    You gotta love it, Norm:

    "We are staying loyal to Jehovah's Organization"

    How do you know it's Jehovah's Organization?

    "We're staying loyal to it, so it must be Jehovah's Organization"

    So I told two friends, and they told two friends, and so on...and so on...

    BITE ME, WATCHTOWER!!!

  • 607BCisAbigLIE
    607BCisAbigLIE

    Thanks, Zazuwitts

    And i'm very pleased that i can make your day much easy on this special day

    MERRY CHRISTMAS to you all!!!!!!!!

  • barry
    barry

    Yes Hans kung Catholic rebel Ive read some of his stuff, he sounds more like a Protestant than a Catholic but they cant seem to get rid of him.
    Im from the Adventist church there are Traditionals, evangelicals and liberals there. The Traditionals beleiving in principle the same Historicist interpretation as the witnesses. The witnesses have 1914 the Adventist traditionals have 1844. Other Adventists from high up in the church to the ordinary members openly dissagree with doctrine they beleive is incorrect. Could there be a change in the WT? I like to think there could but i think it would be much harder than most churches to achieve and would be made harder if those wanting change continually leave.
    Barry

  • Francois
    Francois

    Norm, you make very good points in your post, very good indeed. As you point out, the JWs have been engaged in saying one thing and doing another for decades. It has one standard of judgement for all other religions (especially Catholicism), and a completely different set for itself.

    In fact, the JWs play their game by a rule called "We Win." When JWs can't win using their "We Win" rules, they change the rules to "We STILL Win."

    This is a full and complete example of the practice of hypocrisy.

    My favorite JW "open mouth, insert foot" statement is this well-worn one: "The Catholic Church occupies a very significant position in the world and claims to be the way of salvation for hundreds of millions of people. Any organization that assumes that position should be willing to submit to scrutiny and criticism." {AWAK Aug 22 1984 28}"

    Do not the JWs claim to the the "only channel of communication God is using" on earth today? Are they willing to "submit to scrutiny and criticism"? I daresay that even the active JW trolls who hang out here wouldn't bother denying that the organization of JWs is NOT willing to submit to scrutiny or criticism.

    Another example of primary hypocrisy from "God's" organization.

    I don't know about you, but since I am led by the spirit of God, I am a child of God. That being the case, my father communicates with me directly, leads me directly. I have no need of an organization of hypocritical men making up "We Win" rules for themseleves that I'm supposed to follow like some brainless puppet.

    I say the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society is a self-serving, evil cult - and I say fuck 'em.

    Francois

  • Erich
    Erich

    hi barry,

    excellent, what you've said!

    The reform of religions (including WTS) will come true - no matter where they think this change came from God's will or came from reformers will. For most of all religions is "reform" the same thing as "end".

    They all know about YHVH/JHWH nothing at all, although they allege to be his servants. The "normative power of facts" is what is changing the world. It's the same power Jehovah had claimed for himself....

  • JT
    JT

    Norm I see you are up to no good again smile

    TO THE ARCHIEVES

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit