The Dublin "apostasy" after Ray Franz incident - searching for the audio testimony of John May

by Nostromo 34 Replies latest jw friends

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  etna

  The wt 1982 or 1983, how do we get a copy and what does it say, pleasee.
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  Nostromo

  Actually I now found out it was September 15, 1981watchtower. The article there might have been written to silence Ray Franz and to get rid of him. Could someone who has the wt cd-rom post the article here?
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  Black Sheep

  Godly Conduct Toward Others
  “I am writing you . . . that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in God’s household, which is the congregation.”—1 Tim. 3:14, 15.
  AMONG the benefits that Christians have in studying the Bible is that they learn the godly way of dealing with other humans. Even persons unacquainted with Christianity or the Bible admit the wisdom and practicality of counsel such as: “Just as you want men to do to you, do the same way to them.”—Luke 6:31.
  2 The Bible provides much more than broad generalities about our conduct toward others. It counsels on how we should conduct ourselves toward individuals who are in certain specific relationships to us, or in certain situations. For example, it gives advice as to a Christian wife’s conduct toward her unbelieving husband, and counsel on our conduct toward lowly ones, the crippled and the opposite sex. (1 Pet. 3:1-6; Ps. 41:1; Lev. 19:14; 1 Tim. 5:1, 2) The Scriptures also offer much sound counsel on how we should ‘conduct ourselves in God’s household, which is the congregation.’—1 Tim. 3:15.
  3 Applying such divine counsel is vital, for God’s Word indicates that, in part, he will judge us on the basis of how we conduct ourselves toward others. (Matt. 18:35; 25:40, 45; Rev. 2:23) Hence, rather than being guided either by what some human says that we should do, or by our emotions and what we “feel” is proper, we should have David’s attitude: “Make me know your own ways, O Jehovah; teach me your own paths. Make me walk in your truth and teach me, for you are my God of salvation.”—Ps. 25:4, 5; 139:17, 21.
  DEALING WITH SINNERS
  4 As descendants of Adam, all humans “have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” (Rom. 3:23; 5:12) Our situation is not hopeless, though, for “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners.” Everyone who recognizes that and who exercises faith in Christ can gain forgiveness even though he has lived sinfully in the past.—1 Tim. 1:12-16; 1 Cor. 6:9-11; Acts 10:43; Rom. 6:12-14.
  5 But what if, after a person has repented, put faith in Christ and become a baptized Christian, he succumbs to weakness or stumbles into grave sin? He might still be forgiven, even as the apostle Peter was forgiven for denying Jesus. If you learned of a fellow Christian who had succumbed to grave sin, what would you do? Out of true love you certainly would want to see that that person got spiritual help. Often the devoted spiritual elders or overseers in the congregation are the means for providing that help. With what objective? That of restoring the erring Christian spiritually.—Gal. 6:1; 1 John 5:16; 2 Tim. 2:23-26; Jude 23.
  6 Sometimes, however, a person who has walked for some years in the way of true Christianity deviates from it, gives himself over to ungodly conduct and then is not repentant despite the sincere efforts of the elders to help him. The Bible shows that this happened in the first century, and it happens today. (2 Pet. 2:10-20) What then must be done? In his perfect wisdom and justice, God directs that a firm step must be taken to protect the moral and spiritual cleanness of the congregation, which step might also shock the wrongdoer to his senses. God’s Word commands: “Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.” That means expelling him from the Christian congregation.—1 Cor. 5:13; 1 Tim. 1:20; compare Deuteronomy 17:7.
  7 It is sad that a person’s conduct and attitude would require such action, but once he has been expelled, how are the loyal members of the congregation to view and treat him? Should they conduct themselves toward him as they would toward any neighbor, workmate or person they happen to meet on the street? Should they say “Hello” or even chat briefly if they cross paths with the expelled person? What about working for him or hiring him? To what extent should Christian parents, or other relatives, communicate or keep company with the individual? Many such questions arise. How thankful we can be that Jehovah God provides us with guidance in dealing with an expelled wrongdoer!
  JESUS’ COUNSEL ABOUT WRONGDOERS
  8 At a time when God was still dealing with the Jews as His people, Jesus offered some counsel about one who had sinned. Christ’s disciples, themselves Jews, would understand this advice in the light of the existing situation in the Jewish community. We, too, can benefit, for the counsel Jesus gave would apply later when the Christian congregation was established by God. (Matt. 21:43) Christ began: “If your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.”—Matt. 18:15.
  9 Jesus evidently was not speaking of a “sin” in the sense of some small personal offense such as we read about in Philippians 4:2, 3. (Compare Proverbs 12:18.) Rather, it appears that he meant sins such as fraud or slander, sins serious enough that they might lead to a person’s being expelled from the congregation. If the one sinned against could resolve the matter through a private approach, he would have ‘gained his brother’; when the sinner has evidenced heartfelt repentance and tried to rectify the wrong, there is no need to take the matter further.
  10 What if that step failed? Jesus continued: “But if [the sinner] does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established.”—Matt. 18:16.
  11 The ones brought along were to be “witnesses,” not mere neutral parties attempting to mediate a reconciliation. It seems that they would be individuals who had ‘witnessed’ the wrongdoing, such as knowing of the financial agreement when it was made and thus being able to testify as to whether fraud had occurred. Or, if the evidence of wrongdoing was a contract or the like, spiritually qualified brothers with experience in such situations might be brought along. They could become witnesses to the facts and to what was said by the accused during this meeting in case the last step had to be taken.
  12 Jesus gave as the final step in connection with the sinner: “If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.” (Matt. 18:17) Yes, as a last effort to turn back the sinner from his way, the matter would be taken to spiritually older men of the congregation. These could hear the facts and obtain the witnesses’ testimony. And they would be able to reprove the wrongdoer with God’s Word. However, if he refused to repent, they would act in behalf of the congregation to discipline him, protecting the congregation from his dangerous influence by expelling him.
  NOT INHUMANE TOWARD OTHERS
  13 As an aid in determining what our conduct should be toward such a person, we need to understand Jesus’ words: “Let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.” In later centuries, some Jewish rabbis did express extreme views, such as that a Jew should not even help a Gentile who was in peril of death. Such heartlessness was not shown only toward Gentiles. For instance, in Jesus’ parable about being a true neighbor, both a Levite and a priest refused to help an injured fellow Jew, though a Samaritan later did so.—Luke 10:29-37.
  14 But in Matthew 18:17 Jesus could not have meant that his disciples were to refuse to do an act of human kindness, as in a case of accident or of desperate need. Jesus showed such kindness to some Gentiles. For example, he did so to a Syro-phoenician woman. Though Jesus, his disciples and the woman acknowledged that her situation was unusual because she was a Gentile and Jesus was sent to the Jews, Christ nevertheless healed her daughter. (Matt. 15:21-28; Mark 7:24-30) Jesus showed similar human kindness when a Roman army officer implored him to heal a paralyzed and suffering slave. The officer admitted that he did not expect Jesus, a Jewish teacher, to enter his home. Yet “older men of the Jews” begged Jesus to show mercy to this worthy Gentile, and he did so. (Luke 7:1-10; Matt. 8:5-13) So by what he said about someone’s being “as a man of the nations and as a tax collector,” Jesus did not forbid expressions of merciful kindness. What, then, did he mean?
  “AS A TAX COLLECTOR”
  15 First, how did the Jews look at and treat tax collectors?
  “The publicans [tax collectors] of the New Test[ament] were regarded as traitors and apostates, defiled by their frequent intercourse with the heathen, willing tools of the oppressor. They were classed with sinners . . . with harlots . . . with the heathen. . . . Left to themselves, men of decent lives holding aloof from them, their only friends or companions were found among those who, like themselves, were outcasts.”—“Cyclopædia” by M’Clintock and Strong, Vol. VIII, p. 769.
  Yes, Jesus’ hearers well knew that Jews in general shunned tax collectors. Only reluctantly would Jews have even minimal business contacts with them, to pay the tax required by law.
  16 ‘But,’ someone might ask, ‘did not Jesus associate with tax collectors?’ Well, let us examine the facts.
  17 As “the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world,” Jesus was a light to all people, though he concentrated on the Jews during his earthly ministry. (John 1:29; 8:12; Isa. 42:1, 6, 7; Matt. 10:5, 6; 15:24) He was like a physician in aiding all those Jews who needed him most, including sinners such as harlots, drunkards and tax collectors, who often used dishonest means. Matthew Levi, a despised tax collector, was one who responded to the new message of salvation that Jesus brought. Matthew invited Jesus to his home for a feast, thus allowing Matthew and other interested tax collectors to hear more of the wonderful new truths. (Luke 5:27-32; 19:1-10) These were men who had ‘sinned in their ignorance,’ but who were ready to take steps to have their sins “blotted out.”—Acts 3:19; Heb. 9:7.
  18 However, Jesus’ effort to give a witness to tax collectors who ‘drew near to hear him’ and ‘followed him’ was not a pattern of how unrepentant sinners were to be treated. (Mark 2:15; Luke 15:1) How can we be sure? Though Christ ate with such tax collectors, the apostle Paul ordered that Christians must ‘not even eat with’ the sinner who was expelled from the congregation. (1 Cor. 5:11) Also, Jesus told his disciples to deal with an unrepentant wrongdoer as, logically, they viewed tax collectors of the time. The translation by R. F. Weymouth reads: “Regard him just as you regard a Gentile or a tax-gatherer.”—Compare New International Version; The New English Bible.
  HOW WERE GENTILES VIEWED AND TREATED?
  19 The apostles who heard Jesus’ words that are recorded at Matthew 18:17 were Jews and knew that their countrymen did not socialize with Gentiles. The Law distinguished between Jews and Gentiles, serving to keep the Israelites separate from the surrounding nations. (Deut. 7:1-4; Num. 15:37-41; Eph. 2:11-14) At Passover 33 C.E. the Jews would not enter the Roman governor’s palace “that they might not get defiled.” (John 18:28) And the separation between the Jews and the Samaritans, who even accepted the Pentateuch, was so wide that a woman at a well in Samaria expressed surprise that Jesus, “despite being a Jew,” would ask her for water.—John 4:9.
  20 Furthermore, in 36 C.E., when God purposed to demonstrate that uncircumcised Gentiles could then be accepted as heirs of the Kingdom, he directed the apostle Peter to the Roman army officer Cornelius. But Peter told Cornelius: “You well know how unlawful it is for a Jew to join himself to or approach a man of another race.” (Acts 10:28) Peter’s remark shows how deeply Jews felt that there should be no fraternization with a man of the nations. Also, when it became known that Peter had gone to Cornelius, some Jewish Christians strongly objected that Peter “had gone into the house of men that were not circumcised and had eaten with them.” Yes, Jews regarded it as a shocking thing to be with and eat with a “man of the nations.”—Acts 11:1-3; compare Galatians 2:12.
  21 The Scriptures thus help us to understand Jesus’ advice to treat an unrepentant wrongdoer who refused to listen to the congregation “as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.” Applying Christ’s counsel today certainly would not mean viewing the wrongdoer as an average person in the community, for that would not be how Jesus’ disciples understood what he said. We can better appreciate this by examining added counsel in the Christian Greek Scriptures, which will help us to deal with real-life situations today involving persons expelled from the Christian congregation.
  [Footnotes]
  Under the law of Moses, some grave sins, such as adultery, homosexuality, manslaughter and apostasy, could not be settled merely on a personal basis, with a wronged individual accepting the wrongdoer’s sorrow and efforts to rectify the wrong. Rather, these grave sins were handled through the older men, judges and priests.—Lev. 20:10, 13; Num. 5:11-31; 35:12, 19-25; Deut. 13:6-15; 17:2-9; 19:16-19; 22:22.
  WHAT DID “AS A MAN OF THE NATIONS AND AS A TAX COLLECTOR” MEAN?
  The Jews shunned tax collectors as outcasts
  Jews would not enter the palace of a Gentile governor
  Peter said it was “unlawful” for a Jew to approach a Gentile
  Jewish Christians were shocked that Peter ate with Cornelius
  [Study Questions]
  1, 2. How can the Bible help us in our dealings with others?
   3. Why are we in need of God’s guidance as to our conduct?
   4. Why is it necessary that we know about dealing with sinners?
   5. What needs to be done if a Christian commits serious sin?
   6. If a Christian guilty of grave sin is not repentant, what action must be taken?
   7. What sort of questions arise concerning a person who has been expelled from the congregation?
  8, 9. (a) What counsel did Jesus offer about one who had sinned? (b) To what type of sin was Jesus here referring?
  10, 11. If that first step failed, what would be the next thing to do?
  12. The final step would be what, as explained by Jesus?
  13, 14. How can we be certain that Jesus did not endorse being inhumane toward others?
  15. How did the Jews view and treat tax collectors?
  16, 17. What was Jesus’ conduct toward some tax collectors?
  18. Why were Jesus’ dealings with some tax collectors not the pattern for what he said in Matthew 18:17?
  19. What does the Bible show as to relations between Jews and non-Jews?
  20. What can be learned from Peter’s experience with Cornelius as to how Jews dealt with persons of the nations?
  21. How, then, do you understand what Jesus said about an unrepentant sinner being “as a man of the nations and as a tax collector”?
  [Picture on page 19]
  The Jews shunned tax collectors, who were viewed as sinners. The only business contact with them was to pay the tax required by law
  
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  Black Sheep

  Disfellowshiping—How to View It
  “O Jehovah, . . . who will reside in your holy mountain? He who is walking faultlessly and practicing righteousness.”—Ps. 15:1, 2.
  JEHOVAH is righteous and holy. Though he is merciful and understanding with imperfect humans, he expects those worshiping him to reflect his holiness by trying to uphold his righteous standards.—Ps. 103:8-14; Num. 15:40.
  2 An Israelite who deliberately violated God’s commands, such as those against apostasy, adultery or murder, was to be cut off, put to death. (Num. 15:30,31; 35:31; Deut. 13:1-5; Lev. 20:10) This firmness in upholding God’s reasonable and just standards was good for all Israelites, for it helped to maintain the congregation’s purity. And it served to deter anyone from spreading corruption among the people who had God’s name on them.
  3 In the first century C.E. the Jews under Roman rule did not have the authority to administer the death penalty. (John 18:28-31) But a Jew guilty of violating the Law could be expelled from the synagogue. An effect of this severe punishment was that other Jews would shun or avoid the expelled person. It is said that others would not even have commercial transactions with him beyond selling him the necessities of life.—John 9:22; 12:42; 16:2.
  4 After the Christian congregation was formed, it replaced the Jewish nation in having God’s name upon it. (Matt. 21:43; Acts 15:14) Accordingly, Christians could rightly be expected to uphold Jehovah’s righteousness. The apostle Peter wrote: “In accord with the Holy One who called you, do you also become holy yourselves in all your conduct, because it is written: ‘You must be holy, because I am holy.’” (1 Pet. 1:14-16) Jehovah loves his people and wants to protect the purity of the Christian congregation. So he outlined a provision to reject or expel a person who persists in a course that dishonors God and endangers the congregation.
  5 The apostle Paul advised: “As for a man that promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition; knowing that such a man has been turned out of the way and is sinning, he being self-condemned.” (Titus 3:10, 11) Yes, spiritual elders, such as Titus was, first try lovingly to help a wrongdoer. If he will not respond to their help and persists in a course of “sinning,” they have authority to convoke a committee of elders to “judge the members of [the] fellowship.” (1 Cor. 5:12, Today’s English Version) Love for God and for the purity of his people requires that those in the “fellowship,” the congregation, reject that man.
  6 In the first century some of such wrongdoers arose. Hymenaeus and Alexander were of that sort, men who had “experienced shipwreck concerning their faith.” Paul said: “I have handed them over to Satan that they may be taught by discipline not to blaspheme.” (1 Tim. 1:19, 20) Expelling those two men was a severe chastisement, or discipline, a punishment that might teach them not to blaspheme the holy and living God. (Compare Luke 23:16, where the basic Greek word often rendered “discipline” is used.) It was proper that these blasphemers be turned over to the authority of Satan, cast into the darkness of the world under Satan’s influence.—2 Cor. 4:4; Eph. 4:17-19; 1 John 5:19; compare Acts 26:18.
  HOW TO TREAT EXPELLED ONES
  7 Some questions, however, may arise about how we should treat a former member who has been expelled. Thankfully, God has provided in his Word answers and directions that we can be sure are perfect, righteous and just.—Jer. 17:10; Deut. 32:4.
  8 At one point a man in the Corinthian congregation was practicing immorality and evidently was unrepentant. Paul wrote that this man ‘should be taken away from their midst,’ for he was like a little leaven that could ferment, or corrupt, a whole mass. (1 Cor. 5:1, 2, 6) But, was he, when once expelled, to be treated as if he were just an average person of the world whom the Christians might meet in their neighborhood or daily life? Note what Paul said.
  9 “I wrote you to quit mixing in company with fornicators, not meaning entirely with the fornicators of this world or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, you would actually have to get out of the world.” (1 Cor. 5:9, 10) In these words Paul realistically acknowledged that most persons whom we contact in our daily affairs have never known or followed God’s way. They may be fornicators, extortioners or idolaters, so they are not persons whom Christians choose as regular, close associates. Still, we live on this planet among mankind and may have to be around such persons and speak to them on the job, at school, in the neighborhood.
  10 In the next verse Paul contrasts this situation with how Christians should conduct themselves toward one who had been a Christian “brother” but who was expelled from the congregation because of wrongdoing: “But now I am writing you to quit mixing in company [“not associate,” TEV] with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.”—1 Cor. 5:11.
  11 The expelled person is not a mere man of the world who has not known God nor pursued a godly way of life. Rather, he has known the way of truth and righteousness, but he has left that way and unrepentantly pursued sin to the point of having to be expelled. So he is to be treated differently. Peter commented on how such former Christians differ from an average “man on the street.” The apostle said: “If, after having escaped from the defilements of the world by an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they get involved again with these very things and are overcome, the final conditions have become worse for them than the first. . . . The saying of the true proverb has happened to them: ‘The dog has returned to his vomit, and the sow that was bathed to rolling in the mire.’”—2 Pet. 2:20-22; 1 Cor. 6:11.
  12 Yes, the Bible commands Christians not to keep company or fellowship with a person who has been expelled from the congregation. Thus “disfellowshiping” is what Jehovah’s Witnesses appropriately call the expelling and subsequent shunning of such an unrepentant wrongdoer. Their refusal to fellowship with an expelled person on any spiritual or social level reflects loyalty to God’s standards and obedience to his command at 1 Corinthians 5:11, 13. This is consistent with Jesus’ advice that such a person be considered in the same way as “a man of the nations” was viewed by the Jews of that time. For some time after the apostles died, those professing Christianity evidently followed the Biblical procedure. But how many churches today comply with God’s clear directions in this regard?
  THOSE WHO DISASSOCIATE THEMSELVES
  13 A Christian might grow spiritually weak, perhaps because of not studying God’s Word regularly, having personal problems or experiencing persecution. (1 Cor. 11:30; Rom. 14:1) Such a one might cease to attend Christian meetings. What is to be done? Recall that the apostles abandoned Jesus on the night of his arrest. Yet Christ had urged Peter, “When once you have returned, strengthen your brothers [who also abandoned Jesus].” (Luke 22:32) Hence, out of love Christian elders and others might visit and help the one who has grown weak and inactive. (1 Thess. 5:14; Rom. 15:1; Heb. 12:12, 13) It is another matter, though, when a person repudiates his being a Christian and disassociates himself.
  14 One who has been a true Christian might renounce the way of the truth, stating that he no longer considers himself to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses or wants to be known as one. When this rare event occurs, the person is renouncing his standing as a Christian, deliberately disassociating himself from the congregation. The apostle John wrote: “They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us.”—1 John 2:19.
  15 Or, a person might renounce his place in the Christian congregation by his actions, such as by becoming part of an organization whose objective is contrary to the Bible, and, hence, is under judgment by Jehovah God. (Compare Revelation 19:17-21; Isaiah 2:4.) So if one who was a Christian chose to join those who are disapproved of God, it would be fitting for the congregation to acknowledge by a brief announcement that he had disassociated himself and is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
  16 Persons who make themselves “not of our sort” by deliberately rejecting the faith and beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses should appropriately be viewed and treated as are those who have been disfellowshiped for wrongdoing.
  COOPERATING WITH THE CONGREGATION
  17 Though Christians enjoy spiritual fellowship when they discuss or study the Bible with their brothers or interested persons, they would not want to have such fellowship with an expelled sinner (or one who has renounced the faith and beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses, disassociating himself). The expelled person has been ‘rejected,’ being “self-condemned” because of “sinning,” and those in the congregation both accept God’s judgment and uphold it. Disfellowshiping, however, implies more than ceasing to have spiritual fellowship.—Titus 3:10, 11.
  18 Paul wrote: “Quit mixing in company . . . , not even eating with such a man.” (1 Cor. 5:11) A meal is a time of relaxation and socializing. Hence, the Bible here rules out social fellowship, too, such as joining an expelled person in a picnic or party, ball game, trip to the beach or theater, or sitting down to a meal with him. (The special problems involving a relative who has been disfellowshiped are considered in the following article.)
  19 Sometimes a Christian might feel under considerable pressure to ignore this Bible advice. His own emotions may create the pressure, or it may be brought to bear on him by acquaintances. For instance, one brother was pressured to officiate at the marriage of two disfellowshiped persons. Could that service be rationalized as a mere kindness? One could feel that way. But why were his services wanted, rather than those of the town mayor or other state marrying agent? Was it not because of his standing as a minister of God and his ability to offer marriage counsel from God’s Word? To give in to such pressure would involve him in fellowshiping with the couple, persons who had been expelled from the congregation for their ungodly way.—1 Cor. 5:13.
  20 Other problems arise in connection with business or employment. What if you were employed by a man who now was expelled by the congregation, or you employed a person to whom that happened? What then? If you were contractually or financially obliged to continue the business relationship for the present, you certainly would now have a different attitude toward the disfellowshiped individual. Discussion of business matters with him or contact on the job might be necessary, but spiritual discussions and social fellowship would be things of the past. In that way you could demonstrate your obedience to God and have a protective barrier for yourself. Also, this might impress on him how much his sin has cost him in various ways.—2 Cor. 6:14, 17.
  SPEAK WITH A DISFELLOWSHIPED OR DISASSOCIATED PERSON?
  21 Would upholding God’s righteousness and his disfellowshiping arrangement mean that a Christian should not speak at all with an expelled person, not even saying “Hello”? Some have wondered about that, in view of Jesus’ advice to love our enemies and not ‘greet our brothers only.’—Matt. 5:43-47.
  22 Actually, in his wisdom God did not try to cover every possible situation. What we need is to get the sense of what Jehovah says about treatment of a disfellowshiped person, for then we can strive to uphold His view. Through the apostle John, God explains:
  “Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. . . . If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.”—2 John 9-11.
  23 The apostle who gave that wise warning was close to Jesus and knew well what Christ had said about greeting others. He also knew that the common greeting of that time was “Peace.” As distinct from some personal “enemy” or worldly man in authority who opposed Christians, a disfellowshiped or disassociated person who is trying to promote or justify his apostate thinking or is continuing in his ungodly conduct is certainly not one to whom to wish “Peace.” (1 Tim. 2:1, 2) And we all know from our experience over the years that a simple “Hello” to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?
  24 ‘But what if he seems to be repentant and needs encouragement?’ someone might wonder. There is a provision for handling such situations. The overseers in the congregation serve as spiritual shepherds and protectors of the flock. (Heb. 13:17; 1 Pet. 5:2) If a disfellowshiped or disassociated person inquires, or gives evidence of wanting to come back into God’s favor, the elders can speak to him. They will kindly explain what he needs to do and might give him some appropriate admonition. They can deal with him on the basis of facts about his past sin and his attitude. Others in the congregation lack such information. So if someone felt that the disfellowshiped or disassociated person ‘is repentant,’ might that be a judgment based on impression rather than accurate information? If the overseers were convinced that the person was repentant and was producing the fruits of repentance, he would be reinstated into the congregation. After that occurs, the rest of the congregation can warmly welcome him at the meetings, display forgiveness, comfort him and confirm their love for him, as Paul urged the Corinthians to do with the man reinstated at Corinth.—2 Cor. 2:5-8.
  NOT SHARING IN WICKED WORKS
  25 All faithful Christians need to take to heart the serious truth that God inspired John to write: “He that says a greeting to [an expelled sinner who is promoting an erroneous teaching or carrying on ungodly conduct] is a sharer in his wicked works.”—2 John 11.
  26 Many of Christendom’s commentators take exception to 2 John 11. They claim that it is ‘unchristian counsel, contrary to the spirit of our Lord,’ or that it encourages intolerance. Yet such sentiments emanate from religious organizations that do not apply God’s command to “remove the wicked man from among yourselves,” that seldom if ever expel even notorious wrongdoers from their churches. (1 Cor. 5:13) Their “tolerance” is unscriptural, unchristian.—Matt. 7:21-23; 25:24-30; John 8:44.
  27 But it is not wrong to be loyal to the righteous and just God of the Bible. He tells us that he will accept ‘in his holy mountain’ only those who walk faultlessly, practice righteousness and speak truth. (Ps. 15:1-5) If, though, a Christian were to throw in his lot with a wrongdoer who has been rejected by God and disfellowshiped, or has disassociated himself, that would be as much as saying ‘I do not want a place in God’s holy mountain either.’ If the elders saw him heading in that direction by regularly keeping company with a disfellowshiped person, they would lovingly and patiently try to help him to regain God’s view. (Matt. 18:18; Gal. 6:1) They would admonish him and, if necessary, ‘reprove him with severity.’ They want to help him remain ‘in God’s holy mountain.’ But if he will not cease to fellowship with the expelled person, he thus has made himself ‘a sharer (supporting or participating) in the wicked works’ and must be removed from the congregation, expelled.—Titus 1:13; Jude 22, 23; compare Numbers 16:26.
  LOYAL TO GOD’S VIEW
  28 Loyalty to Jehovah God and his provisions is a source of happiness, for all his ways are righteous, just and good. This is true, too, concerning his provision to disfellowship unrepentant wrongdoers. As we cooperate with that arrangement, we can trust in David’s words: “Take knowledge that Jehovah will certainly distinguish his loyal one.” (Ps. 4:3) Yes, God sets apart, honors and guides those who are loyal to him and his ways. Among the many blessings we receive from such loyalty is the joy of being among those whom God approves and accepts ‘in his holy mountain.’—Ps. 84:10, 11.
  DO YOU RECALL THESE POINTS?
  When Jews were expelled from the synagogue, how were they treated?
  Paul showed what difference in treating
  (1) immoral persons in the world?
  (2) immoral persons disfellowshiped from the congregation?
  How should Christians view a person who disassociates himself from the congregation?
  “Disfellowshiping” implies the terminating of what kinds of fellowship?
  Why do Christians not greet or speak with disfellowshiped persons?
  With regard to disfellowshiping, what do we need to do to remain ‘in God’s holy mountain’?
  [Footnotes]
  “Henceforth he was like one dead. He was not allowed to study with others, no [social] intercourse was to be held with him, he was not even to be shown the road. He might, indeed, buy the necessaries of life, but it was forbidden to eat or drink with such an one.”—The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, by A. Edersheim, Vol. II, p. 184.
  In line with this Bible teaching, Adam Clarke highlights the difference, stating: “Have no communion with [an expelled sinner] in things sacred or civil. You may transact your worldly concerns with a person that knows not God, and makes no profession of Christianity, whatever his moral character may be; but, ye must not even thus far acknowledge a man professing Christianity, who is scandalous in his conduct. Let him have this extra mark of your abhorrence of all sin.”
  Ecclesiastical historian Joseph Bingham writes concerning the early centuries: “The discipline of the church consisted in a power to deprive men of all the benefits and privileges of baptism, by turning them out of the society and communion of the church, . . . and every one shunned and avoided them in common conversation, partly to establish the church’s censures and proceedings against them, and partly to make them ashamed, and partly to secure themselves from the danger of contagion.” “ . . . no one was to receive excommunicated persons into their houses, nor eat at the same table with them; they were not to converse with them familiarly, whilst living; nor perform the funeral obsequies for them, when dead, . . . These directions were drawn up upon the model of those rules of the apostles, which forbade Christians to give any countenance to notorious offenders.”—The Antiquities of the Christian Church, pp. 880, 891.
  Our issue of September 1, 1981, discussed 2 Thessalonians 3:14, 15, where the Bible says that it might be necessary to ‘mark’ a Christian who persists in disorderly conduct. He is still a brother and to be admonished as such, but other Christians are to “stop associating with him.” If they should avoid his company on a social basis, much clearer separation should exist in the cases of disfellowshiped or disassociated wrongdoers.
  For a discussion of repentance, see The Watchtower of September 1, 1981.
  [Study Questions]
  1, 2. How do we know that God expects his worshipers to uphold his standards?
   3. What was the situation of a Jew expelled from the synagogue?
  4, 5. How was the Christian congregation to deal with an unrepentant sinner?
   6. Why was it right and proper to expel unrepentant sinners?
  7, 8. How can we determine what our conduct should be toward an expelled one?
   9. What was Paul’s counsel about dealing with unrighteous persons in general?
  10, 11. Why are Christians to act differently toward a sinner who has been expelled?
  12. (a) Why is “disfellowshiping” an appropriate term? (b) What does history show as to how those professing Christianity dealt with sinners in early times?
  13. What should be done in the case of a person who becomes weak and inactive?
  14. How might a person disassociate himself?
  15, 16. (a) How else might a person become disassociated? (b) How should Christians view and deal with disassociated persons?
  17, 18. What is involved in our cooperating with the congregation as to disfellowshiping?
  19. Why may it sometimes seem difficult to uphold a disfellowshiping, but why is it important that we do?
  20. What should be our reaction if a business associate is disfellowshiped?
  21, 22. The Scriptures provide what advice about speaking with a disfellowshiped person?
  23, 24. Why is it wise to avoid speaking to expelled individuals?
  25, 26. What does God counsel about becoming a “sharer” with a disfellowshiped person?
  27. How might a Christian become such a “sharer,” and with what result?
  28. How can we manifest our loyalty to Jehovah’s view?
  [Pictures on page 22]
  “Not even eating with” a disfellowshiped person
• 

  Black Sheep

  If a Relative Is Disfellowshiped . . .
  AFTER Adam had been alone for some time, God said: “It is not good for the man to continue by himself.” Then He created Eve and instituted human marriage. (Gen. 2:18, 21, 22) Thereafter, earth’s population was to grow. So each person would come to have many relatives. Even if some family members, such as children, did not live nearby they could be visited and pleasant times shared.—Gen. 1:28; Job 1:1-5.
  2 God had purposed that families should be united in true worship, so religious beliefs would not create any divisions. But incidents occurred in which religion became a family issue. One of these was when Korah, Dathan and Abiram rebelled. Jehovah confirmed that he was dealing through Moses and Aaron, not through these religious rebels. Then Moses told the people to get away from the rebels’ tents. What would the children and households of Korah, Dathan and Abiram do? Would they put loyalty to family ahead of loyalty to Jehovah and his congregation? Most of those closely related to the rebels put family before God. Jehovah executed these relatives along with the rebels.—Num. 16:16-33.
  3 However, some of Korah’s sons remained loyal to God and His people. They were not executed along with the rest of Korah’s household and the families of Dathan and Abiram. (Num. 26:9-11) In fact, descendants of these surviving Korahites were later blessed with special service at the temple and mentioned with honor in the Bible.—2 Chron. 20:14-19; Ps. 42, 44-49, 84, 85, 87.
  4 A similar decision between loyalty to family and loyalty to God was faced when an Israelite became an apostate. Would his family, moved by human emotion or blood ties, try to shield him from being cut off? Or would even his brother, son or daughter realize that loyalty to God and the congregation was the right and wise course? (See Deuteronomy 13:6-11.) In the Christian arrangement today a sinner is not cut off by execution, but Christians may face tests because of a relative’s being disciplined.
  RELATIVES MAY CAUSE PROBLEMS
  5 Family connections and affection can be very strong. This is natural and is in accord with God’s arrangement. (John 16:21) But these strong ties can also bring a difficult test on Christians. Jesus explained that one effect of a person’s becoming a Christian would be that relatives might oppose. Jesus said: “I came to put, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household. He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me.”—Matt. 10:34-38.
  6 Christians do not want such enmity to exist. And there is no reason why relatives should oppose or hate them for having become clean, moral, honest servants of God. Yet true Christians realize that they cannot put family before God. In the long run, what is in everyone’s best interest is for Christians to continue faithful to God. In time they may be able to influence their relatives to walk on the way leading to salvation.—Rom. 9:1-3; 1 Cor. 7:12-16.
  7 Relatives may also cause problems for true Christians in another way. This may develop when a relative is disfellowshiped. As discussed in the preceding articles, if a person in the congregation unrepentantly practices gross sin, God requires that he be disfellowshiped. (1 Cor. 5:11-13) The conduct of the wrongdoer has changed his relationship with Jehovah and therefore with family members who are Jehovah’s Witnesses. God is not to blame for these results, because his standards are righteous and just. (Job 34:10, 12) Nor does the fault rest with the faithful Christian relatives. It is the disfellowshiped person who has made problems for himself and for his relatives, as did Korah, Dathan and Abiram.
  8 We need to examine two distinct situations. The first is where a Christian lives in the same household with a disfellowshiped or disassociated family member. The second is where such a relative is not in the immediate family circle.
  IN THE IMMEDIATE FAMILY CIRCLE
  9 A person might become a Christian without others in that one’s family circle accepting the faith. For instance, a wife might be serving Jehovah, but her husband not. Despite that, she is still “one flesh” with her husband and is obliged to love and respect him. (Gen. 2:24; 1 Pet. 3:1-6) Or she might be married to a man who was a dedicated Christian but was later expelled from the congregation. Yet that would not end their marital ties; only death or a Scriptural divorce would do that.—1 Cor. 7:39; Matt. 19:9.
  10 Similarly, if a relative, such as a parent, son or daughter, is disfellowshiped or has disassociated himself, blood and family ties remain. Does that mean, then, that in the family circle everything remains the same when one member is disfellowshiped? Definitely not.
  11 A disfellowshiped person has been spiritually cut off from the congregation; the former spiritual ties have been completely severed. This is true even with respect to his relatives, including those within his immediate family circle. Thus, family members—while acknowledging family ties—will no longer have any spiritual fellowship with him.—1 Sam. 28:6; Prov. 15:8, 9.
  12 That will mean changes in the spiritual fellowship that may have existed in the home. For example, if the husband is disfellowshiped, his wife and children will not be comfortable with him conducting a family Bible study or leading in Bible reading and prayer. If he wants to say a prayer, such as at mealtime, he has a right to do so in his own home. But they can silently offer their own prayers to God. (Prov. 28:9; Ps. 119:145, 146) What if a disfellowshiped person in the home wants to be present when the family reads the Bible together or has a Bible study? The others might let him be present to listen if he will not try to teach them or share his religious ideas.
  13 If a minor child is disfellowshiped, the parents will still care for his physical needs and provide moral training and discipline. They would not conduct a Bible study directly with the child, with him participating. Yet this does not mean that he would not be required to sit in on the family study. And they might direct attention to parts of the Bible or Christian publications that contain counsel he needs. (Prov. 1:8-19; 6:20-22; 29:17; Eph. 6:4) They can have him accompany them to and sit with them at Christian meetings, hoping that he will take to heart Biblical counsel.
  14 But what if a close relative, such as a son or a parent who does not live in the home, is disfellowshiped and subsequently wants to move back there? The family could decide what to do depending on the situation.
  15 For example, a disfellowshiped parent may be sick or no longer able to care for himself financially or physically. The Christian children have a Scriptural and moral obligation to assist. (1 Tim. 5:8) Perhaps it seems necessary to bring the parent into the home, temporarily or permanently. Or it may appear advisable to arrange for care where there is medical personnel but where the parent would have to be visited. What is done may depend on factors such as the parent’s true needs, his attitude and the regard the head of the household has for the spiritual welfare of the household.
  16 This could be true also with regard to a child who had left home but is now disfellowshiped or disassociated. Sometimes Christian parents have accepted back into the home for a time a disfellowshiped child who has become physically or emotionally ill. But in each case the parents can weigh the individual circumstances. Has a disfellowshiped son lived on his own, and is he now unable to do so? Or does he want to move back primarily because it would be an easier life? What about his morals and attitude? Will he bring “leaven” into the home?—Gal. 5:9.
  17 In Jesus’ parable of the prodigal son, the father ran to meet and then accepted his returning son. The father, seeing the lad’s pitiful condition, responded with natural parental concern. We can note, though, that the son did not bring home harlots or come with a disposition to continue his sinful life in his father’s home. No, he expressed heartfelt repentance and evidently was determined to return to living a clean life.—Luke 15:11-32.
  DISFELLOWSHIPED RELATIVES NOT LIVING AT HOME
  18 The second situation that we need to consider is that involving a disfellowshiped or disassociated relative who is not in the immediate family circle or living at one’s home. Such a person is still related by blood or marriage, and so there may be some limited need to care for necessary family matters. Nonetheless, it is not as if he were living in the same home where contact and conversation could not be avoided. We should keep clearly in mind the Bible’s inspired direction: “Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person . . . , not even eating with such a man.”—1 Cor. 5:11.
  19 Consequently, Christians related to such a disfellowshiped person living outside the home should strive to avoid needless association, even keeping business dealings to a minimum. The reasonableness of this course becomes apparent from reports of what has occurred where relatives have taken the mistaken view, ‘Though he is disfellowshiped, we are related and so can treat him the same as before.’ From one area comes this:
  “One person who was disfellowshiped was related to about one third of the congregation. All of his relations continued to associate with him.”
  And a highly respected Christian elder writes:
  “In our area some disfellowshiped ones with large families have been met, as they enter the lobby of the Kingdom Hall, with a fanfare of backslapping and handshaking (even though the disfellowshiped one was known by them to be still living immorally). I feel a deep concern that those who have been disfellowshiped need to see that their course is hated by Jehovah and by his people and that they should feel a real need to become genuinely repentant. What will help these disfellowshiped ones to change when they are continually greeted by all in their large families who know of their practices?”
  20 There must have been congregations in the first century where many were related. But when someone was disfellowshiped, were all the relatives to carry on as normal as long as they did not discuss Scriptural matters with the disfellowshiped person? No. Otherwise the congregation would not really be applying the command: “Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.”—1 Cor. 5:13.
  21 Great care needs to be exercised that a person’s situation as a disfellowshiped sinner is neither overlooked nor minimized. As the sons of Korah well demonstrated, our chief loyalty must be to Jehovah and his theocratic arrangement. We can be sure that when we uphold his standards and prefer association with his organized people, rather than with wrongdoers, we will have his protection and blessing.—Ps. 84:10-12.
  SOCIAL GATHERINGS AND DISFELLOWSHIPED RELATIVES
  22 Normally, relatives are often together at meals, picnics, family reunions or other social gatherings. But when someone has unrepentantly pursued sin and has had to be disfellowshiped, he may cause difficulties for his Christian relatives in regard to such gatherings. While they realize that they are still related to him, they do not want to ignore Paul’s advice that faithful Christians should “quit mixing in company” with an expelled sinner.
  23 There is no point in looking for some rule as to family members being at gatherings where a disfellowshiped relative might be present. This would be something for those concerned to resolve, in keeping with Paul’s counsel. (1 Cor. 5:11) And yet it should be appreciated that if a disfellowshiped person is going to be at a gathering to which nonrelative Witnesses are invited, that may well affect what others do. For example, a Christian couple might be getting married at a Kingdom Hall. If a disfellowshiped relative comes to the Kingdom Hall for the wedding, obviously he could not be in the bridal party there or “give away” the bride. What, though, if there is a wedding feast or reception? This can be a happy social occasion, as it was in Cana when Jesus attended. (John 2:1, 2) But will the disfellowshiped relative be allowed to come or even be invited? If he was going to attend, many Christians, relatives or not, might conclude that they should not be there, to eat and associate with him, in view of Paul’s directions at 1 Corinthians 5:11.
  24 Thus, sometimes Christians may not feel able to have a disfellowshiped or disassociated relative present for a gathering that normally would include family members. Still, the Christians can enjoy the association of the loyal members of the congregation, having in mind Jesus’ words: “Whoever does the will of God, this one is my brother and sister and mother.”—Mark 3:35.
  25 The fact is that when a Christian gives himself over to sin and has to be disfellowshiped, he forfeits much: his approved standing with God; membership in the happy congregation of Christians; sweet fellowship with the brothers, including much of the association he had with Christian relatives. (1 Pet. 2:17) The pain he has caused may even survive him.
  26 Should he die while disfellowshiped, arrangements for his funeral may be a problem. His Christian relatives may like to have had a talk at the Kingdom Hall, if that is the local custom. But that would not be fitting for a person expelled from the congregation. If he had been giving evidence of repentance and wanting God’s forgiveness, such as by ceasing to practice sin and by attending Christian meetings, some brother’s conscience might allow him to give a Bible talk at the funeral home or grave site. Such Biblical comments about the condition of the dead provide a witness to unbelievers or comfort to the relatives. However, if the disfellowshiped person had still been advocating false teachings or ungodly conduct, even such a talk would not be appropriate.—2 John 9-11.
  LESSONS FOR ALL OF US
  27 All of us need to appreciate that it is Jehovah’s judgment that counts. (Prov. 29:26) That is true as to hateful practices, for the Bible shows that these are things that God detests. (Prov. 6:16-19) But it is also true as to his judgment of individuals. Jehovah’s Word plainly says that “unrighteous persons,” those carrying on the “works of the flesh,” will not inherit his kingdom. (1 Cor. 6:9, 10; Gal. 5:19-21) Such persons have no place in heaven, nor will they fit in the earthly realm of the Kingdom. Accordingly, anyone who wants to remain in the clean congregation of God today must meet His standards. God simply will not permit “leaven” to remain as a corrupting influence among his holy people.—1 Cor. 5:6-13.
  28 Naturally, if a close relative is disfellowshiped, human emotions can pose a major test for us. Sentiment and family ties are particularly strong between parents and their children, and they are also powerful when a marriage mate is disfellowshiped. Still, we must recognize that, in the final analysis, we will not benefit anyone or please God if we allow emotion to lead us into ignoring His wise counsel and guidance. We need to display our complete confidence in the perfect righteousness of God’s ways, including his provision to disfellowship unrepentant wrongdoers. If we remain loyal to God and to the congregation, the wrongdoer may in time take a lesson from that, repent and be reinstated in the congregation. Yet, whether that occurs or not, we can draw comfort and strength from what David said late in life:
  “All [God’s] judicial decisions are in front of me; . . . And let Jehovah repay me according to my righteousness, according to my cleanness in front of his eyes. With someone loyal you will act in loyalty; with the faultless, mighty one you will deal faultlessly; with the one keeping clean you will show yourself clean . . . And the humble people you will save.”—2 Sam. 22:23-28.
  [Footnotes]
  Comments on the situation of elders and ministerial servants are presented in “Questions from Readers” in The Watchtower of February 1, 1978.
  [Study Questions]
  1, 2. (a) What was God’s purpose as to family religion? (b) Some families faced what decision in Korah’s time?
   3. Some of Korah’s family made what wise choice?
   4. In what other way might family loyalty pose a test in Israel?
  5, 6. (a) How might family division develop over religion? (b) Why must Christians not compromise in this situation? (Ps. 109: 2-5)
  7, 8. Who is at fault over family problems that disfellowshiping may cause? (Deut 32:4)
   9. What is the situation as to family obligations if a person’s mate is not a Christian or is disfellowshiped?
  10, 11. How does disfellowshiping affect spiritual ties in the home?
  12. With regard to spiritual communion, what changes might occur when a family member is disfellowshiped?
  13. How would parents deal with a disfellowshiped child in the home?
  14, 15. What should be done about a disfellowshiped parent’s moving back into the home?
  16, 17. (a) How might parents react to the possibility of a disfellowshiped child’s moving back home? (b) What can we learn on this from the parable of the prodigal son?
  18, 19. (a) How should Christians view association with disfellowshiped relatives who are outside the immediate family? (b) Why is this position appropriate? (2 Tim. 2:19)
  20, 21. When it comes to disfellowshiped relatives, why do we need to be careful? (2 Tim. 2:22)
  22. Why may family gatherings pose special problems as to disfellowshiped relatives?
  23. What would be the situation with a disfellowshiped relative and a Christian wedding?
  24. Loyal Christians can most enjoy what association? (Prov. 18:24)
  25, 26. If a disfellowshiped relative dies, what would be the situation as to a funeral?
  27. How should we view God’s judgments?
  28. How may the matter of disfellowshiping put our loyalty to the test?
  [Picture on page 28]
  A disfellowshiped parent may need to be cared for in the home of Christian children
  [Picture on page 29]
  The prodigal son did not return home to continue his sinful living, but was repentant. His father accepted him back
• 

  Nostromo

  Btw, if you want to hear more John May, go here: http://www.4witness.org/jehovahs_witness/jw_audiovideo.php and click on "love truth - live truth". This guy is quite a speaker!
• 

  Gladring

  wantarevolution, you have a pm
• 

  Nostromo

  you have a pm from me too...
• 

  wantarevolution

  ooops

  Sorry - was away for the weekend. Have just replied
• 

  jdhf

  http://www.theoriginofspeciousnonsense.com/

  John May was on Newstalk today...I have found him! he has written a book condeming Charles Darwin's Origin of Species.

  He can be contacted at: [email protected]