When I see it in writing I will believe it. Otherwise it is pointless.
Scripturally, Is There Any Precedent For "Fading" & Still Not Being Totally Shunned?
by minimus 30 Replies latest jw friends
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leavingwt
When I see it in writing I will believe it. Otherwise it is pointless.
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minimus
Not so, Blondie. Being prepared is a good thing.
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undercover
Thank you Blondie...
I don't see this "rumor" happening either. Too much of what's already in print (as you've shown) would have to change.
I like your point that "fader" is not a WT term. What constitutes a "fader"? Would someone who just lost their zeal but still believes be caught up in this witch hunt and black listed?
The potential of this backfiring and causing disgruntledness across the ranks is too great also. Imagine those of us who faded yet still have family relations mostly intact to suddenly be treated as if DFd...with no real reason for it. People are loyal only to a point. Many dubs have already shown they'll put family in front of the shunning rules. This would only increase, thus costing the Society even more control over the flock.
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leavingwt
The potential of this backfiring and causing disgruntledness across the ranks is too great also.
Cults demand Purity. The 1975 debacle caused them to lose almost half their membership. They're alive and bigger today.
Expelling the non-faithful is par for the course. Jehovah is a a Jealous God.
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blondie
So obviously you have given this deep, detailed thought, min.
1) What do we prepare for?
2) Specifically what detailed steps should we be prepared to take?
I still think there is no reason for anyone to panic or lose sleep over this. Individual jws already can choose to shun inactive jws and family members without any specific scriptural direction.
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minimus
No panic or loss of sleep here.
We can prepare for being told by family members or friends that they cannot talk to us (as most of my relatives treat me). For example, if my mother was told she COULDN'T speak to me, I'd rather be preparing her for that time rather than deal with it when it happens. I'd rather cite scriptural examples of how instead of shunning the prodigal son, he was embraced. There is no record of his ever being shunned. He simply went his way away from his family.
The reason why individuals can choose to shun is because they have been told that it is the proper course. Remember, the written word is not always the ultimate basis for believing something from the Watchtower Society. They have utilized the spoken word to give direction which can superscede what is written....see voting.
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OnTheWayOut
I have relatives who have in-laws that are on the grapevine. They've been saying stuff like this for 2 years.
I am with Blondie on this. There's too much of a variety of believers and faders to make a clear definition of who to shun and who not to shun. But I understand what Minimus is saying. They have been saying this stuff so that members decide on their own that they might need to shun totally inactive ones who don't go to meetings and don't do field circus.
I think we should start expressing to relatives that IF such a thing were to ever occur it would be in violation of the scriptures (if that's provable).
I am certain that it can be proven from the scriptures. The problem is that we can make the scriptures say just about anything. To prove it, stick with Jesus mostly. He was more reasonable than YHWH of the OT and much more balanced and caring than Paul. The faders are like seeds on the rocky soil or lost sheep needing a shepherd. But also, some of the YHWH and Paul stuff can be used- the way the "elders" are supposed to be a place of hiding for the members, showing mercy.
Back to the problem. Regardless of what you say to members and what scriptures you show them, WTS will twist it in a different way. They will say that the time for patience is gone because the end is microseconds away, so show tough love and listen to this bunch of scriptures out-of-context to tell you why. Members believe WTS over their own understanding of the scriptures.
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minimus
I guess I feel I'd rather be the one who lays a foundation to get one thinking than wait for "Mother" to decree a matter and have it become unquestioned. When there were rumors that meetings would be cut down and the home bookstudies were to be obliterated, I took the time with my mother to ask why having the meetings the way they were were soooo beneficial. After getting the responses I got with backup from the publications themselves, I laid the groundwork to show how things could change and change they did. I've often gotten info from here, passed on the possibility of a change and just like that-----I'm a true prophet again! I don't discount every rumor here and I think that it can be beneficial to fend off some things with preparedness.
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BluesBrother
I have relatives who have in-laws that are on the grapevine. They've been saying stuff like this for 2 years.
Exactly....people have said this for years. I have not seen it yet.........To do so would go contrary to the teaching of Jesus and the "searching for the lost sheep" and "the prodigal son"