To any ex JW's in Aloholic's Anonomous

by digderidoo 18 Replies latest jw friends

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  digderidoo

  I know there's a handful here.

  Could you pm me to get in touch or respond to this thread. For any who have my email or facebook listing could you contact me as i have some questions with regards to how you have worked step 3.

  I am at a place now where i am wondering if AA is going to work for me anymore, 18 months in and i seem to be going around in circles on step 3 and could do with a bit of advice from those of you who can identify with this. It's not just the God thing, it's also the idea of 'handing your will over', i just cannot conceive the idea of handing my will over to something else as i've done that for years as a JW. I'm at a crossroads in my sobriety and could do with speaking to some AA'ers who were JW's.

  Anyone who i've never spoken to before feel free to add your thoughts also as i haven't really used this site for a while so therefore don't know who's here and who isn't.

  Regards

  Paul
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  digderidoo

  BTTT before i go to bed.
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  jeeprube

  Let me know what you find out, I hit a road block at step 3 also. It wasn't the turning my will over to a higher power that bugged me, it was the tendency I perceived within the AA group to act as if THEY spoke for that higher power. It was too familiar to the JW thing for me.
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  parakeet

  It's not just the God thing, it's also the idea of 'handing your will over', i just cannot conceive the idea of handing my will over to something else as i've done that for years as a JW. I'm at a crossroads in my sobriety and could do with speaking to some AA'ers who were JW's.

  I attended OA (Overeaters Anonymous) meetings last year. It follows the same 12-step program as AA. I had to stop attending because no matter how much they said belief in God was not necessary, just belief in a higher power, I choked at the idea of submitting to any higher power. Every time a member talked about how much "God" helped him/her to accomplish something, I cringed inwardly. One member even said that he's seen atheists become believers in less than a week at OA retreats. That kind of talk makes me shudder.

  AA, OA and other 12-step programs are not cults, I know, but it hits too close to the bone when they talk about the necessity of reliance on God. I'm trying to decide whether I should give it another try. My weight problem is certainly not going away on its own.

  So if there's anyone here that can help digderidoo and me out, let's hear it, please.
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  avishai

  Talk to rebel8. She thinks AA may not be the best step for those exiting JW's and one of the other tratment options would be better. I concur.
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  OnTheWayOut

  I don't do the steps in AA. I just use the group support. I take what I need and leave the rest. That's one of their catchphrases.
  
  As far as turning your will over to "God," I go to an Atheist/Agnostic group. I have learned that various members do various things with their "higher power." Most turn their life and will over to a "program." It's not that the program of AA actually dictates every facet of their life, but rather that in the area of their powerlessness, they use the AA program as their strength and guide and go to a meeting, work their steps, read their literature, they just don't do it the way they used to do it- by drinking.

  Another way that some people can work through the steps is by using the guidance of a now dead ancestor as a higher power, and through their spirit and memory accepting guidance and praying for help.

  AA's 12 steps support groups meeting are not necessarily out of the question simply because you do not share a traditional belief in God.

  I will share some of my unusual path with you. It might help, it might not. I have given way to eastern thought. I don't believe in the God of the Bible and I generally accept science and reject God altogether. But eastern thoughts do not demand that I accept the religious aspect to get the "spirituality." One book that helped some was THE TAO OF SOBRIETY (http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Sobriety-Helping-Recover-Addiction/dp/0312242506) Tao allows for the letting go of attachments to guilt and other "self-condemnation" behaviors that lead to substance abuse. I am not becoming a Buddhist or a Taoist but I appreciate differing views on what spirituality actually means. Tao allows for my beliefs and those of others to be "correct." From other books, I have learned more. I know that in logic, there either is a single all-powerful god or there is not, but by learning the middle way of Tao, I learn that the universe is this moment in time and space. Nothing exists from the past and nothing exists from the future. It is all in the now and recreated every moment. So while I don't let some sky daddy guide my life, I can allow for his existence in some other life. I don't have to be "right" and other people "wrong." That is a very JW way of thinking. But if the universe was just created for this moment, it doesn't matter in this moment what everyone believes about the past and creation. It's just another moment and it will all be gone and recreated again.

  Spirituality can be a general belief that people doing good find good in others and others do good for them. There is plenty of bad also, but likened to karma without being supernatural, goodness attracts more goodness than badness. Seeking peace and sobriety attracts peace and sobriety.

  My higher power is the acceptance of that force similar to karma- that there is goodness, peace, and sobriety to be found. My higher power is the journey of discovery that is spirituality. I turn my life over to the journey of learning about spirituality and science and religion. Humans are truth-seeking organisms. Instead of scoffing at Biblical or other religious journeys of others, even while I disagree with such a path for myself, I choose to understand why others must be on their path. It has helped immensely with my wife and mother, still JW's.
  
  I hope my ramblings help the tiniest little bit. Also, try googling "atheists in AA" and variations on that to see what others have said.
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  parakeet

  Thank you so much, OTWO. I'll start checking into everything you just said.
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  digderidoo

  Jeeprube, i know the feeling. How's things now though? Did you find something that was of a benefit to you, better than AA?

  Parakeet, I've felt the same, cringed at the God talk, but i did initially adopt the words of a God of my own understanding which the steps talk of.

  OTWO, i have looked into similar lines to yourself. For me God has been a spiritual journey, rather than an existential being. I have looked into eastern philosophy, mainly Buddhism. I have read One Breath at a Time, Buddhism and the Twelve steps which has helped. I've looked a little in Taoism and may read more. I do not adopt that traditional wiew of God and over the last year spoken to many buddhist AA'ers. I have also looked into how atheists work the steps.

  The main issue i'm having is the part where it says to 'hand your will over'. It's as if i'm adopting another belief system, that has some sort of control on my life. After coming out of the JW's adopting a belief system, instead of acting on my will is something that sits uneasy with me. In my view we are created or exist with a free will, so why hand it over, which seems to be the AA way.

  I have a sponsor in AA who wants me to do the step 3 prayer with him before i move on, i refuse to do it. Because of this i am not doing the other steps, what's the point in working the program. I have used other things as a higher power, the group, a spiritual path, etc I have felt comfortable that i have got step 3 in the past but recently have these issues with handing my will over, also physically doing a prayer with someone is not something i feel comfortable with.

  I am considering stopping AA, but at the same time wonder whether this will effect my sobriety.

  Paul
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  blondie

  Dig, maybe it is time to find a sponsor that is not God-centered. I live in a city that has many members that are atheists and agnostics but have found meetings where God is not the center but as you say a "higher power." I did not attend AA but I did got to Al-Anon and ACOA (Adult Child of an Alcoholic) meetings. I was a jw at the time and found the religious tone in the first meetings I attended counter productive. I finally found an ACOA meeting made up of atheists and agnostics who focused on the practical, daily aspects. There were no prayers or reference to prayers, no holding hands and saying the lord's prayer.

  Try secular sobriety groups too.

  http://sosaustralia.tripod.com/index.htm

  http://listserv.kent.edu/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A3=ind0107e&L=addict-l&P=170404&E=0&B=--------------7B6BBFCACE080A41F5367599&N=wagslist.htm&T=text%2Fhtml

  I would check with any general atheist/agnostic groups in your area and find what they might suggest.

  Blondie
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  OnTheWayOut

  It sounds like you are at a serious crossroads. If your sponsor insists on something (it is what many sponsors will do) you either need to iron it out with him or end his sponsorship. Yes, I don't lean on AA as much as others, but it is because I was sober 99% of my time in the JW's. Being a JW was my sobriety, my higher power. So now I use AA as much as I need it, but have sobriety mostly because it's already a habit.

  If you have managed all this other stuff, finding comfort in some other way, you may be able to similarly stop doing the steps because they aren't really what you want. Or you can continue working the steps in your own way without the drive from this sponsor.

  I didn't want to jump in and suggest that first because some people are more desparate than others and need the steps and program in their out-of-control life. You seem better grounded already. I must agree that I do not want to hand my will over to something.